In other Trump news, Trump has claimed progress in Syria, claiming a “permanent ceasefire” along the Turkish border.

The general of the SDF (the Kurds) applauds Trump’s efforts.

The cynic in me gives a week before the fighting starts again.

The cynic in me gives a week before the fighting starts again.

Even sooner for me. But it seems that all sides are at least happy with this development.

If what Trump says is true, Turkey is finished with it’s operation. If what Turkey says is true, they will start repatriating Syrian refugees to their home country. It will take time to see how this works itself out, but if it does work, the prophecies and hand-wringing of Trump’s opponents were for naught.

I think they’re wrong to storm the deposition, but right that this should be done in the open. — NOS4A2

Prior to the civil war a Republican senator was beaten with a walking cane by a Democratic representative. Maybe we'll get there again.

GOP Descends to new depths of thuggery

- Wednesday 23 Oct. In the morning, the House Intelligence Committee attempted to hold an impeachment-related hearing with a Department of Defense official about the military aid the Trump administration withheld from Ukraine. Like previous House Intel Ukraine hearings, Wednesday’s was to be held privately in a secure “sensitive compartmented information facility” (SCIF) in the Capitol. There are sound nonpartisan reasons for keeping the hearings behind closed doors for now: The inquiry touches on classified information, for one, and investigators don’t want testimony made public yet for the same reason that police officers interview criminal suspects separately. (That is, they don’t want what one witness says to influence what other witnesses may say.) Republican members of the committee were present Wednesday, as they have been for other depositions, and Democrats have said that public hearings will be held once the initial investigation is finished in coming weeks....,

Nonetheless—and likely because the content of the testimony that’s being heard is reportedly so damaging to the president—pro-Trump Republicans have made the allegedly sinister secrecy of the proceedings their chief issue at the moment. On Wednesday, this escalated to stupid and borderline dangerous/criminal levels as Florida Rep. Matt Gaetz, who is such a powerful manifestation of MAGA energy that he was once arrested for DUI in his dad’s BMW, led 20 or so Republican House members who aren’t on the Intelligence Committee in a slow-motion raid of the SCIF room as the hearing was scheduled to begin. Several appear to have been using their phones in the facility, a violation of protocol that—if any of the phones happen to have been previously hacked—could help foreign governments gain access to classified information. (And do we really think none of these predominately male legislators have ever used their phones’ audiovisual capacities, if you get our drift, in a way that would make them vulnerable to malware?)

The unauthorized Republicans eventually left, ultimately delaying the hearing by five hours. The kicker, per Bloomberg, is Donald Trump told Gaetz, et al., that he “supported” the SCIF-raid plan in a meeting Tuesday. Thus we have the executive branch endorsing a plan to physically disrupt a legislative investigation of the executive’s conduct in a way that risks exposure of classified material. Very cool! Very normal!

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/trump-impeachment-chances-gaetz-scif-edition.html

From WaPo:

Taylor ...testified that on a call, Sondland stated that Trump told him he wanted Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to “publicly” pledge investigations — which would undercut the fact of Russian sabotage of the 2016 election and help smear potential 2020 opponent Joe Biden. Taylor claimed Sondland told him the [held-back aid] money was dependent on this.
Taylor then adds:


We also discussed the possibility that the Ukrainian Prosecutor General, rather than President Zelenskyy, would make a statement about investigations, potentially in coordination with Attorney General Barr’s probe into the investigation of interference in the 2016 elections.


Two senior U.S. officials seriously discussed a plan in which the attorney general of the United States would publicly coordinate with a foreign government to help Trump absolve Russia of culpability for an attack on our political system, by helping to repudiate our intelligence services’ conclusion about that culpability.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/10/23/hidden-revelation-taylor-hints-worse-come-trump/

What an embarrassment to the country. It's a mob-mentality once again: desperate times call for desperate measures.

Now he's attacking some of his own party calling them 'human scum' since they are turning against him.

It's funny the hypocrisy as it relates to Lindsey Graham. During the Clinton impeachment hearings he was all about abuse of office and "cleansing the office" in favor of impeachment.

And now there's this Trey Gowdy dude who in the past made a big deal about ' preserving the process'... now like Graham, he's doing a 180. LOL

I think Anthony Scaramucci was right ( a GOP'r who also turned on Trump) about Trump mentally losing it... Or maybe it's just that whole New York City mob mentality.

Sorry New York!

MAGA thugs. When you can't defend the charges, attack the process.

If Trump is not removed from office, then it's goodbye to the rule of law in America. And the implications of that are mind-boggling. But on the other hand, if Trump is impeached and removed from office, then maybe there's a chance that this whole sorry episode will act like a vaccine of sorts. We can only hope.

When you can't defend the charges, attack the process. — Wayfarer

True that!! It's a pretty standard distraction tactic. Pretty pathetic...

And as a little PostScript, I'm 'equal opportunity'; I was also embarrassed when Clinton was doing all that ridiculous behavior stuff in the oval office. I felt like, hey just go to a hotel somewhere but not in the oval office... .

I still say we need more moderate's in both our religious and political institutions.

It will take time to see how this works itself out, but if it does work, the prophecies and hand-wringing of Trump’s opponents were for naught. — NOS4A2

You don't think that all the "hand-wringing" is the reason Trump has expended so much energy trying to get a ceasefire?

In other Trump news, Trump has claimed progress in Syria, claiming a “permanent ceasefire” along the Turkish border. — NOS4A2

The permanent ceasefire is based on an agreement between Russia and Turkey, without US involvement. So it's Putin, not Trump, who has made progress.

it's Putin, not Trump, who has made progress. — Echarmion

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding...

We have a winner!

Do you wanna keep on being Putin's pawn
Tell you what he's gonna do-ooo-oo
Do you wanna keep on being Putin's pawn
Cause there's so much more that he wants from you

I suppose the SDF general was lying, then.

No, Trump’s sanctions and ceasefire deal were separate from Russia and Turkey’s pact.

I suppose the SDF general was lying, then. — NOS4A2

He didn't make a statement of fact at all. It doesn't make sense to say he was "lying".

No, Trump’s sanctions and ceasefire deal were separate from Russia and Turkey’s pact. — NOS4A2

They were separate, indeed. Mike Pence negotiated a five day ceasefire. Russia and Turkey negotiated a longer term solution. So, the actual progress beyond the short-term ceasefire was made without US involvement.

This cannot be a lie?

We THANK President Trump for his tireless efforts that stopped the brutal Turkish attack and jihadist groups on our people.

Anyways, quibble about my use of terms all you want. I think leaving Syria is great progress.

I remember asking how along the US should remain in that area, and you gave a great idea, broker a deal between Turkey and “the Kurds”, until they are able to escape or get ready for their defence. It appears Trump had pretty much the same idea. Broker a deal and get “The Kurds” out of the area. So now that that is over, what else do you suggest?

I was watching Chris Cuomo last night about yesterday's 'political charade' apparently endorsed by Trump, and he reminded the viewers about 'the process'. To this end, we are in the deposition phase. And we know in most any adjudication process, deposition's are almost always closed door between said prosecutors and witnesses. I mean, standard stuff in a civil or criminal trial.

The interesting parallel was that during Clinton's impeachment, the Ken Starr report was all 'off-site closed door deposition style' where typical witness testimony was taken including corroborating evidence/testimony at his law office(s).

So, don't worry GOP, when the deposition 'process' is completed, your party, and the American people will get to see/hear the 'trial' and you will have your chance to cross examine witness, as well as bring other's to testify... . And by the way, there are Republican's in the committee right now asking questions of the various witnesses... .

Just a minor point to bring up concerning the charade yesterday. I wonder if Trump's base even gets it...

Or maybe they just 'get' the mob mentality!

I remember asking how along the US should remain in that area, and you gave a great idea, broker a deal between Turkey and “the Kurds”, until they are able to escape or get ready for their defence. It appears Trump had pretty much the same idea. Broker a deal and get “The Kurds” out of the area. So now that that is over, what else do you suggest? — NOS4A2

Right now? Nothing. The ship has sailed, Russia has taken up the position of the US and it's not like further involvement now does anyone any good. That doesn't mean the initial decision was a good one, or that Trump can somehow take credit for salvaging the situation apart from brokering a ceasefire (at a point when the presence of Russian troops had already put the future of the Turkish offensive in jeopardy).

Perhaps. At least the doom-mongering and fortune-telling of both the war hawks and their propagandists didn’t bear any fruit, as usual. But yes, those who border Syria will continue from here. Millions of Syrian refugees in Turkey will begin to repatriate. American troops in the area will hopefully return home.

I wonder if Trump's base even gets it. — 3017amen

They will not. Has any Republican in Congress even acknowledged that the closed hearings are even allowable, much less appropriate?

@StreetlightX

If you get a second, what do you think of this perspective on morality in politics? Moore is typical of American liberals; emotional, strongly focused on morality, not overly interested in practicality:

indeed Relativist, indeed. And lot's of hypocrisy too:

“One of the reasons that [former Republican House Oversight Committee Chair] Trey Gowdy said that these things work better in private, the way he conducted most of Benghazi, I don’t remember you complaining about that. I don’t remember you guys complaining in 2015 when you guys changed the rules to empower the majority with subpoena power to suppress the minority,” Cuomo noted"

You go Chris! Love you man!

Just a minor point to bring up concerning the charade yesterday. I wonder if Trump's base even gets it...

Or maybe they just 'get' the mob mentality! — 3017amen

The MAGA thugs in the GOP will stop at nothing to wreck these proceedings. If there are any honest GOP members left, they really have to stand up.

True that!

And going back to the big picture, someone said past performance is a good indicator of future performance.

Whether it's his past business dealings with stiffing contractors, Russian interference with our election from which his campaign team members were found guilty & ncarcerated, or this kind of Ukraine attempt, common sense still tells me the likelihood of guilt is very high...

In the meantime, I'll be stocking up on the popcorn !

It looks like the Durham investigation is now turning into a criminal inquiry. This does not bode well for champions of the Russia hoax.

Justice Department officials have shifted an administrative review of the Russia investigation closely overseen by Attorney General William P. Barr to a criminal inquiry, according to two people familiar with the matter. The move gives the prosecutor running it, John H. Durham, the power to subpoena for witness testimony and documents, to impanel a grand jury and to file criminal charges.

Justice Dept. Is Said to Open Criminal Inquiry Into Its Own Russia Investigation

Get your popcorn indeed.

Hard to believe the GOP aren't heavily leaning into autocracy between this latest development and the several dozen GOP house members attempting to derail and impede the impeachment inquiry.

looks like the Durham investigation is now turning into a criminal inquiry. This does not bode well for champions of the Russia hoax. — NOS4A2

I'm totally fine with anything that uncovers truth!

As far as I'm concerned it wouldn't bother me if that's all that both Democrats and Republicans do; investigate each other. That's probably the only way to drain the swamp.

And the reason why it shouldn't bother anyone, is that in using the sports metaphor, the players (rank and file ) are the ones who execute the real work anyway ( I know from working in state government myself). The coaches (politicians) can argue till exhaustion. So then maybe some level of truth will come out...gee that would be one virtuous outcome from this Presidency!

NOT LoL

In Trump’s fevered imagination, this is what he saw: that he could prove that the entire 'Russia Witch Hunt' was actually a scam cooked up by Clinton and the DNC, and perpetrated with corrupt politicians in the Ukraine and elements in the Intelligence Community. The aim of this scam was to damage Trump and undermine the legitimacy of his election victory - and it culminated in the Mueller Report.

He's roped in Stephen Barr - oh, who happens to be the US Attorney General - to investigate and coerce various bit players on the sidelines - among them, an Australian ex-foreign minister and an Italian professor with links to a fake passport scam, in a phony 'investigating the investigators' sham, again attempting to prove that the Mueller Report was bogus.

He imagines - dreams! - a scenario where Joe and Hunter Biden are found to have been conniving with corrupt elements in the intelligence services and in the Ukraine to manufacture the evidence that was later included in the Mueller Report, and are being led off in handcuffs to a federal penitentiary. He falls for some crazy internet meme that Hilary Clinton's email server with 'thousands of classified emails' is actually somewhere in Ukraine, and he's going to have someone (or have Rudy find someone) find it.

Mueller, if not disgraced, is found to have been the dupe of corrupt intelligence officers in the FBI and CIA. Trump's reputation is restored, all his persecutors and tormentors are disgraced and jailed, with the Fake Media shown up as co-conspirators in the whole wicked scheme.

Through pursuing this, Trump has thoroughly corrupted the Office of the Presidency. He's also practically eviscerated the State Department and earned the life-long enmity of many in the CIA and FBI. Of course, all this plays into the Alt-Right 'deep-state conspiracy' nonsense that Trump throws out to the base.

But in reality, you're seeing thousands of loyal and beleaguered public officials, diplomatic staff and intelligence agents being abused in pursuit of a truly crackpot conspiracy theory, worthy of a plot written by Robert Ludlum or John LeCarre.

This is what Trump and Guiliani were working on proving, and he's convinced this is what happened. It may, hopefully, lead to his downfall and removal from office, but he and the MAGA thugs in the GOP will fight by any means necessary, legal or illegal, to prevent that from happening. It all rests on getting enough people, and the right people, to believe and defend lies. It’s the fact that it’s working that makes it so depressing.

...Russia hoax... — NOS4A2

If you would like to portray youself as an objective observer, I recommend you refrain from using Trump's memes. The investigation was anything but a hoax which implies there was no reason whatsoever to suspect wrongdoing by the Trump campaign. OJ Simpson was acquitted of murder but that doesn't imply his investigation was perpetrating a hoax.

If you would like to portray youself as an objective observer, I recommend you refrain from using Trump's memes. The investigation was anything but a hoax which implies there was no reason whatsoever to suspect wrongdoing by the Trump campaign. OJ Simpson was acquitted of murder but that doesn't imply his investigation was perpetrating a hoax.

I‘ve made no secret about voting for Trump and being a fan of Trump’s.

A hoax implies the reasons to suspect wrongdoing were fabricated and passed off as truth. A hoax implies people were duped into believing something when it was false. Out of curiosity, what did you believe?

Read Mueller's mandate. Then which facts are you disputing from the report? Did it or did it not establish that people from the Trump campaign had contact with Russians? Shouldn't that be investigated when it was already proved Russians hacked the DNC? What exactly were people led to believe was a lie in this according to you?

Putting it differently, if people are aware a gang shot a rival gang and you would have regular contact with those shooters, what part would be a hoax if you are subsequently investigated by the police?

A hoax is a deliberate fabrication, what did Mueller make up? Or who else did that if we're not telling about him? Rod Rosenstein when he signed the mandate?

Again, let me rephrase, what the fuck are you talking about?