Many people think it is implausible that an omnipotent, omniscient, morally good god would create a universe like this one and then force innocent sentient creatures to live in it. I agree — Bartricks
If you think there's such a thing as a problem of evil, then the same logic should lead you to question parenthood. — csalisbury
What do you think the world should be like? No predation? No possibility of disease? Nobody would ever die, get injured? How would that work? How could a world be like that? — Wayfarer
:chin:Do you agree with that? — Bartricks
The problem of evil implies God does not exist. — Bartricks
It also implies, I am arguing, that those humans who procreate are, other things being equal, not good people. — Bartricks
Yours is the 'hotel manager's theodicy'. You expect existence to be like a well-run resort, where all the guests are happy, the service is always perfect, and there's never any illness or death. And because it's like that, you infer that 'the manager' - which is your depiction of what 'God' is supposed to be like - must be held responsible. But your post shows no insight into the problem of evil as traditionally construed (and whether you believe in it or not.) — Wayfarer
What's the moral? The moral is that a morally good being doesn't exercise the power to create innocent sentient life in a world like this one. — Bartricks
:snicker:↪Bartricks Yours is the 'hotel manager's theodicy'. You expect existence to be like a well-run resort, where all the guests are happy, the service is always perfect, and there's never any illness or death. — Wayfarer
Yours is the 'hotel manager's theodicy'. You expect existence to be like a well-run resort, where all the guests are happy, the service is always perfect, and there's never any illness or death. — Wayfarer
What's the moral? The moral is that a morally good being doesn't exercise the power to create innocent sentient life in a world like this one. — Bartricks
What's the problem? We live in The Most Arbitrary of All Possible Worlds aka "shit happens, sisyphus-like 'life is just shoveling one pile after another', so get on and get over it" — 180 Proof
The 'problem' is that while many people recognise that it would be inconsistent with being good for an omnipotent, omniscient being to create a world like this one and make us live in it, ... — Bartricks
You don't make it clear perhaps, but I re-read your OP and now I take it that you are rejecting the problem of evil in order to defend some kind of theism? — jellyfish
There is one issue though: an omnipotent God has the option to bring people into the world without suffering. Humans do not. So, for your argument to work, it has to apply to non-omnipotent beings. And then we're back to the old question of whether or not existence is worse than non-existance. — Echarmion
Yours is the 'hotel manager's theodicy'. You expect existence to be like a well-run resort, where all the guests are happy, the service is always perfect, and there's never any illness or death.
— Wayfarer
And no earthquakes, floods, genocide, brutal dictatorships etc. You seem to have left these out in your hotel description. — Echarmion
Earthquakes, floods and so on are natural calamities. Brutal dictatorships are perpetrated by humans. The former are unfortunate, the latter are intentionally evil. — Wayfarer
In a created, "designed" world, everything is intentional, and hence natural disasters are "evil". — Echarmion
What's uncontroversial is that innocent sentient life does not deserve to suffer. — Bartricks
There is one issue though: an omnipotent God has the option to bring people into the world without suffering. Humans do not. So, for your argument to work, it has to apply to non-omnipotent beings. And then we're back to the old question of whether or not existence is worse than non-existance. — Echarmion
Forrest (@Pfhorrest) if you get a second, could say a little about Leibniz's answer to the PoE, and what he had to say about heaven? — frank
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.