Then it would follow, as I've thought it through, that a door or gate or anything of the sort - is a passage. — Shamshir

Not a "portal", or something similar?

A portal is a passage, isn't it?
If you're not familiar, the port in portal stands for gate.

A portal is a passage, isn't it?
If you're not familiar, the port in portal stands for gate. — Shamshir

I think it refers to an entrance or place of entry. Entry to somewhere; in your example, a passage/corridor. A door leads onto whatever lies behind it, doesn't it?

An entrance, likewise an exit - are a passage in to and out of, correct?
An entry to a passage, would basically be a passage to a passage; a bit redundant.

That a door leads to whatever lies behind it, does not disentangle it from being a passage - as a passage does the same, correct? Likewise a bridge?

When you say 'open the door' - are you opening up the barricade and inspecting its insides or are you moving the barricade and opening up a passage? — Shamshir

You are removing the cover of a portal between one place and another. I makes no difference what is on either side of the portal.

It does, in the sense that opening the door references the opening of said portal, and not the removal of the cover; not directly anyway, as the removal is just an assumed step that's not mentioned.

An easier way to convey the door as the barricade would be to reference its hinges; though considering this cover is more or less part of the passage, when you reference the cover you inadvertently reference the passage.

It does, in the sense that opening the door references the opening of said portal, and not the removal of the cover; not directly anyway, as the removal is just an assumed step that's not mentioned.

An easier way to convey the door as the barricade would be to reference its hinges; though considering this cover is more or less part of the passage, when you reference the cover you inadvertently reference the passage — Shamshir

A barricade, cover, door are not the same as a wall, and never will be. All of them are removable, can you remove a wall?

I don't see why not; wall is just a barricade.
Do you see any foundational difference between a wall and a barricade? A wall isn't immovable, merely stationary.

How about "You make a better door than window"? I use that one a lot still.

Do you see any foundational difference between a wall and a barricade? A wall isn't immovable, merely stationary. — Shamshir

Look up the definition of barricade, door, cover and then wall. Which is meant to be movable and which is meant to be permanent? A wall is not immovable, but it is a bitch to close it again after you open it.

And thus - we come around again, do you open the wall or the passage?

It seems to me that a door marks a border, to cross-fertilise two current threads.

Door:
- a movable, usually solid, barrier for opening and closing an entranceway, cupboard, cabinet, or the like, commonly turning on hinges or sliding in grooves.
- any means of approach, admittance, or access.
- any gateway marking an entrance or exit from one place or state to another — dictionary.com

A door is not a passage, but one end of a passage. A door, like a point in maths, is considered to have zero thickness. [ Not literally zero, of course, but we normally assume its thickness is insignificant. ] It marks and protects an entrance or exit to/from somewhere else. Is this really all so complicated?

And thus - we come around again, do you open the wall or the passage? — Shamshir

'Tis you. dear sir, that is spinning in circles. A wall just stands there, it cannot be opened in the sense that a door or portal would be. THAT is why they install doors in them, so that one can traverse through the wall without having to disintegrate your self and pass the molecules between those of the wall material.

A garage door is a garage wall; if proportion is the issue.

But you said:

they install doors in them — Sir2u

And there are doorflaps within doorflaps.
Hence I said:

And thus - we come around again — Shamshir

Go back and the missing piece should become apparent. A door is indeed a wall - but what is missing?
Perhaps a glove may garner the answer?

Let's say it is not a passage, a through. What then do you open when you open the door...?

↪Pattern-chaser
Let's say it is not a passage, a through. What then do you open when you open the door...? — Shamshir

Consider a room, with a door that connects the room to a corridor. The door marks the border between the room and the corridor. But the door is not the border, just a marker, like the "US-Canada border is here" signs.

But a door offers extra function, just to confuse us. :wink: Because the door can also allow or prevent passage between the room and the corridor. When we open the door, we allow passage between the room and the corridor, in either direction. When we close it, we prevent passage.

"What then do you open when you open the door"

Physically, I open the door, by swinging the wooden barrier that is the door on its hinges. So physically, I move a sheet of wood. Metaphorically, I open a border (between the room and the corridor).

Is there a point to the mystery we're creating here? A door is a movable barrier. What are we chasing here, @Shamshir? :chin:

But a door offers extra function, just to confuse us. :wink: — Pattern-chaser

Now you're getting it.

That a door is a passage is an honest statement.
But alas an omission.

Open your hand - you unfold your hand - like you unfold the doorframe.
Open your ears - you clear your ears - like you clear the doorway.

You being @Pattern-chaser, I wonder, did you not pick up on my zig-zag? Perhaps looking at the chronology in retrospect you'll see it, if you did not.

And now that you've got it:

Is there a point to the mystery we're creating here? A door is a movable barrier. What are we chasing here, Shamshir? :chin: — Pattern-chaser

Thus framed, the point is the will of the wisp.
But when chasing patter, we are mystbound and not paying attention - finding we've lost our way.

Perhaps this needless extrapolation is actually an allusion - and while the suspense kept us in place, going through the door may have been the key.

Is this adequate?

A garage door is a garage wall; if proportion is the issue. — Shamshir

Who mentioned size? How can size be an issue when the size of the DOOR is adjust to the size of the object passing through it. Do you not open your big garage door to drive your car out. Next time try driving through the wall as they are the same thing right.

And there are doorflaps within doorflaps. — Shamshir

Those little flats are just smaller doors set into larger ones so that you do not have to open the big one. Try to imagine a warehouse door being opened ever time a person wants to enter or leave, that is why they install smaller "people" size doors in them .

A door is a door and will all ways be a door.
A wall is a wall and until you can show me one that can be opened and closed you are wrong.

END OF TOPIC

Next time try driving through the wall as they are the same thing right. — Sir2u

Do you drive through the garage door or do you move it?

That a door is a passage is an honest statement. — Shamshir

I think it's a misleading statement. A door is a door. It allows passage, or it allows access to a passage, but it is not in itself a passage. Having (effectively) zero thickness, the one thing a door is not is a passage. A passage has length; it takes you from one place (one end) to another (the other end); it traverses distance.

Open your hand - you unfold your hand - like you unfold the doorframe.
Open your ears - you clear your ears - like you clear the doorway. — Shamshir

Now you're investigating the different meanings that "open" and "clear" can carry?

Thus framed, the point is the will of the wisp.
But when chasing patter, we are mystbound and not paying attention - finding we've lost our way.

Perhaps this needless extrapolation is actually an allusion - and while the suspense kept us in place, going through the door may have been the key.

Is this adequate? — Shamshir

Now I am completely and utterly lost.

What is the point of this diversion???
What are you trying to tell/show us???

I think it's a misleading statement. A door is a door. It allows passage, or it allows access to a passage, but it is not in itself a passage. Having (effectively) zero thickness, the one thing a door is not is a passage. A passage has length; it takes you from one place (one end) to another (the other end); it traverses distance. — Pattern-chaser

Very well.
But may I ask how this lack of passage intersects a passage? Likewise, wouldn't an effective zero thickness be counterproductive to your statement?

Now you're investigating the different meanings that "open" and "clear" can carry? — Pattern-chaser

I'm sheathing the door, hoping it fits.

Now I am completely and utterly lost.

What is the point of this diversion???
What are you trying to tell/show us??? — Pattern-chaser

Nothing important - moreso I'm just following through.

Nothing important... — Shamshir

Then we're done here. :up:

Quite.
Time to close the door and pass on through.

Do you drive through the garage door or do you move it? — Shamshir

:meh: Did you not read where I said that you open the door to drive your car out, it would then seem pretty obvious that you would have to drive through the hole that it left in the wall.

And then we come around again - you open up the wall, to drive your car out.
Why do you favour one over the other?

Doesn't matter.
Egg with or without a shell is egg.

Please, pay attention.
You've been following so earnestly, that you forgot to stop and notice - I'm not making a distinction, as one would be utterly worthless.

It's all just a reference to an omission.
And the omission is context.
Look at the first question I asked in this thread.

And then we come around again - you open up the wall, to drive your car out. — Shamshir

I am beginning to think that you have some sort of a problem with the English language. You cannot open a wall. You would have to knock it down or drive over it.

It's all just a reference to an omission.
And the omission is context.
Look at the first question I asked in this thread. — Shamshir

OK.

When you say 'open the door' - are you opening up the barricade and inspecting its insides or are you moving the barricade and opening up a passage? — Shamshir

If this is the question you are talking about the only omission from the question is common sense.
You would usually dismantle the door to look inside it or look stupid if it was a solid door.
A door involves just two things, allowing passage from one place to another or block passage from one place to another. Opening it allows the first and closing it the second. And you can call it whatever you like, door, manhole cover, portal, trapdoor, storm door, revolving door, fire door and the list goes on and on.

A door might be part of a wall but it is not a wall.

I am out of here.
Bye.

It's all just a reference to an omission.
And the omission is context. — Shamshir

Then why not just say so? You post riddles, and expect us to telepathically discover your point. Clarity and simplicity, y'know? :wink:

That's no fun.
Tangling yourself up in an effort to untangle is my method of exploration~

If you've ever any mysterious amalgamations, do share~

Clarity and simplicity, y'know? :wink: — Pattern-chaser

Tangling yourself up in an effort to untangle is my method of exploration — Shamshir

I have found that, if I am unclear, my audience is unwilling to spend the time trying to work out what I intended. They ignore me and move on. Clarity and simplicity are what we put into our writing for the benefit of those who read our words.... :chin:

It would seem your audience is rather faithless - or maybe a bunch of ants?

In order to attain clarity as to the matter of doors, we must be inclined to open all doors to the matter - even doors that on the forefront appear not as doors.
Should we wish to broaden our awareness, we must be willing to carefully measure every supposed absurdity.

So perhaps it's just a matter of patience?

It would seem your audience is rather faithless — Shamshir

I was trying to refer, gently, to your audience. My attempt at diplomacy (not a talent I actually have). More directly: speak clearly or get ignored. Your riddles are too much like hard work, for very little reward. Sorry. :meh: