Therefore compatibilism is impossible.
— bahman
No, if we assume everything before you said is true, then libertarian free will is impossible. Libertarian free will is an incompatibilist position. — darthbarracuda
Free will in another hand is the ability to initiate or terminate a chain of causality.
— bahman
This is the libertarian free will definition. Not compatibilism. — darthbarracuda
Then the causal chain recedes back in time beyond my birth and I am morally responsible for causal antecedents that occurred before I existed. — Cuthbert
All that this indicates is that the compatibilist rejects the traditional understanding of "free will — Metaphysician Undercover
Any attempt to assert an "I" merely displays a misunderstanding of Determinism and the illusions it creates. — Rich
How does this correlate? — charleton
There is no I in a deterministic world. It is all an illusion. Enlightened Determinists realize that they are not enjoying anything. All is without meaning. — Rich
The case for the incompatibility of determinism with evolution is actually much easier to make. Determinism really means there are no chance events. Evolution requires chance to exist as a ontological ultimate. — tom
I really think you are clueless here. — charleton
Determinism just means that for each effect there are causes. — charleton
True there is no such thing as chance in an absolute sense. — charleton
Chance in a deterministic world just means we've not enough information to predict all outcomes in a complicated world. — charleton
A dice is not random; its landing is determined by the throw, and other causal factors, that are not easy to measure. — charleton
A group of matter that is experiencing? Care to take a stab at the line of demarcation and how that group is performing that trick. Are they talking to each other?I is the word given to a group of matter that is experienced. — SonJnana
As you know, determinism works both ways. What if the final conditions of the universe require agent freedom to have come into existence?
I mention this because perhaps determinism as it operates in reality, is not what you think it is. — tom
Determinism acts in both ways and all ways, because it is more of a religion than a philosophy. All one has to do is assign whatever attributes one wishes to the mystical, omnipresent, omnipotent Laws of Nature and bingo, you have your story. One can appeal to the power of God in the same way. — Rich
Although you don't understand how determinism works in Reality, it doesn't matter, because those who deny Free Will because of determinism, but advocate Evolution, don't either. — tom
According to science, we can change what we will. — tom
What falsifiable, tested and long-unfalsified scientific theory says that?. — Michael Ossipoff
The theory is quantum mechanics — tom
The deduction is that the human brain can be arbitrarily programmed; the Mind instantiated on the brain can be changed. This is a basic physical fact. — tom
We already have several techniques for altering Minds, some rudimentary, some relatively sophisticated.
In order to erect a barrier to us being able to alter our minds as we choose,
The Laws of Nature act in mysterious ways and it is not for us to understand them - not that understanding had any meaning anyway. — Rich
Incorrect. Quantum mechanics doesn't say that we can change what we will. — Michael Ossipoff
But yes, I admit that, at philosophy forums, quantum mechanics has a big pseudoscientific mystique. — Michael Ossipoff
And I also admit that there are some people here who are all confused about the difference between, and the boundaries between philosophy and science (quantum mechanics is particularly popular in that regard). — Michael Ossipoff
I'm not saying that QM doesn't have any philosophical relevance. A recognized authority, a physicist specializing in QM, wrote that QM lays to rest the notion of an objectively-existent physical world. — Michael Ossipoff
Have you ever tried to reduce your craving for some nutritionally-undesirable kind of food? — Michael Ossipoff
However, the type of determinism that really exists is quite different! — tom
A group of matter that is experiencing? Care to take a stab at the line of demarcation and how that group is performing that trick. Are they talking to each other? — Rich
As for meaning, it is all about illusion. Hence, an enlightened Determinist realizes that life has no meaning because they are able to see right through the illusion. — Rich
It's amazing that there are grown adults who actually believe all this. — Rich
The biggest problem with determinism it's that there is absolutely zero evidence for it. Other than that, it is a nice story of how the Laws of Nature (God) determines everything. — Rich
The biggest contribution that QM has had on philosophy is that it finally put to rest the possibility that there could actually be a deterministic universe. — Rich
Matter interacts with other matter and energy. — SonJnana
Except that our deepest theories of reality are deterministic, — tom
You don't know the first thing about QM. — tom
And that is about it. The rest is a magical mystery tale, conjured up by atheists so that they have their own God to worship. It is really quite amazing to observe. Basically it demonstrates that everyone needs their own God whatever the name they choose to use. — Rich
So matter interacts with matter. Ok. And the rest of the story, I mean the whole story... pure, unadulterated story telling, of the most creative type. — Rich
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