Since when does a tube of chemicals view themselves as having a function? — Rich
You are asking about how the pieces came together in the assembly line. I have no idea whatsoever. We know they are together though. — MikeL
We also see the purpose becoming more intentional as we move up through the layers. Intentionality and behaviour can be explained by psychology - Operant Conditioning would fit best. — MikeL
More than this, I am asking how they (the chemicals) got the notion that they have function? — Rich
a force innate within the atoms. Perhaps this also needs more thorough investigating. — MikeL
If I understand correctly, substantial being exists only as the result of constraints. — Metaphysician Undercover
Substantial being emerges from the interaction between material and efficient causation — Metaphysician Undercover
You are very good at replying why being a state of matter shouldn't feel like anything. Likewise a state of information.
But you go curiously silent on the question of why wouldn't a lived neural model of the world feel like something?
Hmm. — apokrisis
What I am I not seeing? — MikeL
No you never. You just reverted to asking the same questions about matter or information. You've been so obsessively repetitive with that tactic that even you got bored enough to start simply cutting and pasting yourself. — apokrisis
That it is not a window into a functional understanding of cognition. Quite deliberately, it doesn't go there. — apokrisis
I take your point Rich, but I take the opposite view. I don't like to use the word consciousness because it is a neat little bag we don't need to open - a quanta of life. I am ready to resign myself to that position if I can't open the bag, but I'm not there yet. — MikeL
If you want to understand the mind in terms of Hebbian networks, Hebb had already made a better start. — apokrisis
Should we really be assuming physical causation as a valid assumption at all? — Victoribus Spolia
In case you hadn't noticed, my physicalism is semiotic. So as science, or indeed metaphysics, it starts from psychology and sociology. — apokrisis
You should call it entropy for two reasons: first, the function is already in use in thermodynamics under the same name; second, and more importantly, most people don't know what entropy really is, and if you use the word "entropy" in an argument, you will win every time. — John von Neumann
No. It arises from constraints on a vague material potential (that thus become the concrete degrees of freedom of the system because there are those limits that produce some distinct variety of substantial being). — apokrisis
The semiotic information acts causally as the constraints on substantial being. In Hylomorphic terms, it represents the top-down formal and final causes. — apokrisis
So in terms of the four causes, it is formal/final cause constraining vague potential to produce definite material/efficient causes. The causal loop is then closed as these material/efficient causes must be of the right character to re-construct and perpetuate the global state of constraint. — apokrisis
Apokrisis is providing the pivot we need to understand the transition from non-life to life. Semiotics allows us to jump track from chemistry to biology by considering function over form. — MikeL
We had non-semiotic activity occurring billions of years ago, prior to the arrival of life on earth, then magically semiotics (and life) occurred. If we assume that semiotic activity occurred prior to life on earth, and is responsible for the original shaping of material potential into substantial existence, then this is no other than assuming God as creator of substantial existence. — Metaphysician Undercover
---- a chemical explanation.The cell that suddenly upregulates the expression of a glucose receptor may be in a low glucose environment or be expending lots of energy. (output: glucose receptor up, input: low glucose). It is upregulating to ensure supply ---- a semiotic explanation
When glucose levels fall below a certain level the cascades that are normally initiated when glucose binds to a cell receptor decrease. This means that secondary proteins that are normally bound up in the cascade are now more likely to participate in reactions involving the creation of glucose receptors. — MikeL
There is a huge gap between a Prigogine dissipative structure, and a semiotic system. — Metaphysician Undercover
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.