• Banno
    I want that to give me a purposeQu King

    Why that?

    So for example why not take a Stoic approach to death and cultivate acceptance of it as a necessity of life?
  • Qu King
    Because you still die and in my mind, all I achieve and learn will be lost so what's the bloody point?
  • Banno
    ...all I achieve and learn will be lostQu King
    So what? Why is that important?

    Again, only because you give it import.
  • Banno

    Here, @Qu King, you see a style of philosophising that we in the trade call "Just Making Shit Up".
  • Qu King
    That is precious to me, I can't talk for you but I am amazed you asked that question.
  • ZzzoneiroCosm
    Here, Qu King, you see a style of philosophising that we in the trade call "Just Making Shit Up".Banno

    Always a kind word.

    It's good to make shit up sometimes to test the limits of the imagination.

    "Ever expanding in the Bosom of God, the Human Imagination. (Jerusalem, I, 5; p. 554)1."

    Know that I have rescinded. It has been an exciting spring.
  • Banno
    Did I say that making shit up was a bad thing? I've nothing against it, provided it is honest toil. But I will take issue with those who pretend the shit they make up is real.
  • Banno
    That is precious to me, I can't talk for you but I am amazed you asked that question.Qu King

    Ok, so it is for you in some way fundamental.

    We could change tack somewhat and discuss the difficulties with that.
  • Outlander

    That's why you don't just do things for your own foolish enjoyment and pleasure.

    Yeah you can work like crazy and gain enough money to buy a giant house, cars, and go on crazy vacations. Or. You can do something to benefit what's important to you.

    Say you like philosophy. You can use your wealth or influence to maybe create a school or foundation to advance that interest. If you really care about it and you die and can't be around to see it and get admiration, boo hoo. Others will benefit from your work and maybe even think back and be like... man
    That guy was cool. If that's so important.
  • neonspectraltoast
    I can't explain. It diminishes the fact. Anyone who has an eye for truth can see the plain truth of it. Or you can go the way of the OP and insist everything is bullshit. You don't function that way, though, do you? Wonder why.
  • ZzzoneiroCosm
    But I will take issue with those who pretend the shit they make up is real.Banno

    I have no illusions about what is real. It's almost a white canvas.
  • Banno
    I have no illusions about what is real.ZzzoneiroCosm

  • ernestm
    I was deeply religious for many years before I started to learn to ask the right questions.Qu King

    Well welcome aboard. As introductory advice, you may want to click 'reply' at the bottom of a comment when you write something in response, so that the board sends a notification to the commenter. Maybe it takes a couple of tries to get right )

    You might find that philosophy is often about discovering there are better questions than the ones you thought were right to ask in the firust place. I hope you discover some nice friends here.
  • DingoJones

    Well it depends on where exactly the choice is being made I guess. I had in mind things beyond ones sphere of control, things like hunger or adversity that you get no decision about but of course you have decisions once you encounter the adversity. To me there are needs, wants, and things that matter outside the purview of morality, but your comment made me think you might have a different view, where morality can be connected to anything that matters.
    So...how is what matters a moral choice?
  • Banno
    Your point is sound. @Qu King's argument is egocentric.
  • Banno
    how is what matters a moral choice?DingoJones

    Because there is an alternative.

    The fact of hunger gives way to the choice of stewed vegetables or stewed babies... or potato chips.
  • DingoJones

    I dont follow how there being an alternative makes domething moral. How would you define morality?
  • Banno
    Isn't ethics about what one ought choose?
  • DingoJones

    Its about ethical choices sure, but not all choices are ethical unless you have some differing idea about ethics, hence asking you to define morality.
    Im just curious about the original statement I responded to.
  • JohnnySocketAccepted Answer
    Ah very good topic. My answer to this question is informed by some existential philosophers, especially Heidegger, Nietzsche, and Sartre.

    So, in one sense you are kind of right. If we take a mental step back and evaluate life from a 3rd person view, we do not know if there is any meaning to human life, and it doesn't seem like there is.

    However, from a first-person point of view, there is plenty of meaning. I enjoy nature, for example. Everything I do is meaningful if it allows me to do more of the things i enjoy doing. For example, I detest working at my current job, but it is meaningful because it supports me while i go to college to do something I will enjoy.

    I think the whole "life is meaningless" thing comes from the way society teaches us to evaluate things. If something doesn't serve some goal, it's useless. For example, a lumberjack may be conditioned to see a tree as just material for building a house, and if it isn't good house-building wood, it's useless. Yet, this type of thinking is shallow. When we think this way, we lose our ability to connect to nature in a fundamental way, a way that is best expressed by poetry.

    "life is meaningless" arises if we only tend to the rational side of human nature. We have learned that we must constantly have some justification for everything, but why do we need to justify what we enjoy? Why do i enjoy video games? because it's fun. Why should i beleive its fun? Who cares? it just is. Not to say that inquiry into why cant be useful in some contexts, but in others it can ruin the experiential side of human existence. To assume i must have a reason for everything is pathological and is a sign of an anxiety disorder, not intelligence. Rationality is not the only part of human experience.

    So, in summary, is life objectively meaningless? I think so. However, this is an inauthentic way of living because it prioritizes society's way of valuing things over my own subjective experience. I do not live outside of life, looking in. I live inside of life where i find plenty of meaning if i tend to my whole expereince of being human, and not overuse my rational capabilities to reduce my experience to nothing.
  • DoppyTheElv

    What kind of treatment is that? Is it even possible?
  • unenlightened
    Did I say that making shit up was a bad thing? I've nothing against it, provided it is honest toil. But I will take issue with those who pretend the shit they make up is real.Banno

    You just made this up didn't you? I always pretend the shit I make up is real - life is more fun if you take it seriously.
  • 180 Proof
    ↪180 Proof
    What kind of treatment is that? Is it even possible?
    It seems so. (See here)
  • DoppyTheElv

    I know that Cryonics cost like 200K--And their work ethic is dubious.
    Do you really think this'll be out in time?
  • Outlander
    I dunno. Just declare some more facts on a whim until there is. I mean really? :lol:

    Really though the word is discernment. Rationality separates the two I believe.
  • Banno
    I always pretend the shit I make up is real - life is more fun if you take it seriously.unenlightened

    You're far too modest. Not everything you make up is shite.
  • 180 Proof
    I don't know. It's a plausible alternative to cryonics; animal trials looks promising so far. I'm 50something so it'd please me greatly if this was a thing in the next 20-30 years or sooner.
  • Wheatley
    What is the purpose
    Nothing matters
    We die
    Before we were born there was nothing
    The universe is nothing to me when I die
    Why do I care
    Why does anyone care
    They all die
    We live in a made up world with rules and laws invented to control people
    What difference does it make if I die now or 100 years from now?
    I still die
    There is no religion, it’s a lie
    There are no ghosts, it’s a lie
    There is no magic, it’s a con
    There is no afterlife
    You die.
    Qu King
    Do you at least enjoy your life? If you can live your relatively short stretch of time with great fulfillment, you’re a winner. Life is about winning. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

    So what is the f**king point in anything?

    It’s like some cruel joke and everyone is swimming in a sea of fog of denial where where they act as is they are in control.

    I have these thought in my mind all the time, don’t tell me I’m depressed because I’m not. Medicating this away is not the answer. I want the world to face reality. Face the facts.
    EVER. .
    Qu King
    Having sex matters, eating a good meal matters, having friends and family matters.

    The single most important thing is preservation of your own life.
    Science is the only answer, not some mumbo jumbo faith BS religion but pure science.
    There needs to be a movement that with all the knowledge and wealth in the world that exists today this is what we need to be focusing on. Here are my idea’s:

    Initially, find a way to extend our life when our body can no longer cope and the idea’s I had was to preserver the head and keep the brain alive and hook it up to something like the Neuro Link that Elon musk is working on.

    Keep you body cryogenically frozen for preservation of your DNA.
    When the technology is ready, create a clone of yourself and using a more advanced neuro link connect yourself to that clone.

    Your head needs to be protecting in some fortress and with the advancement of Robotics you can neuro lace to a robot too.

    The brain is the most complex thing in the universe, it needs preserving and there needs to be a movement of likeminded people.

    I cannot believe I am the only one that thinks like this.
    Qu King
    That’s all up to society, isn’t it? The best thing to do is to get the most enjoyment out of life.
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