• NOS4A2
    4.9k


    Oh dear. Wrong again.
  • Xtrix
    2.1k


    Keep fighting for the "freedom" to spread a virus like a selfish imbecile. You're doing God's work.
  • Xtrix
    2.1k
    I'm posting this here as well. To moderators: this is my third time posting this. If this violates rules for "spamming" or whatever, my apologies. Given that there are multiple threads where this information can be relevant, I figured it was worth sharing in all.

    Excellent summary by Dr. Suppinger:

    As a doctor, I have recently been asking my patients whether they have gotten a COVID-19 vaccine or made a plan to do so. Initially, some expressed reluctance or just wanted to “wait and see.” This is understandable, given the unprecedented speed with which the vaccines were developed. While I was happy to get my shot as soon as I could, I understood why some others felt uncomfortable getting it right away. Now that almost 150 million Americans have received at least one dose of a vaccine, some are feeling a little more confident about getting it, too.

    But the negative responses from patients have shifted somewhat in recent weeks. A number of those who haven’t been vaccinated are saying that they have no intention of doing so — ever. One common reason is that they just don’t perceive much of a threat. As case counts continue to decline, some younger patients think their risk of severe disease or death is so low that it’s just not worth it. Conversely, some elderly patients tell me that they just don’t get out and about very much, so they don’t think it’s likely they will be exposed.

    It’s frustrating to realize that the elusive herd immunity we all thought would hasten a return to our pre-COVID lives may never be achieved, by our own collective choice. On the other hand, I am relatively healthy and have been vaccinated, so my chances of survival if I contract COVID are excellent. Why should I care if some people don’t want to get vaccinated? Here’s three reasons why I do care:

    1. People who are elderly or immunocompromised may not have as robust an immune response to vaccination as a young, healthy person in a clinic trial. Getting more of the population vaccinated adds a layer of protection for those most vulnerable. And while some elderly people may not go out much, almost no one lives in complete isolation; small family gatherings over the holidays likely fueled the winter surge. In other words, if you won’t get vaccinated to protect yourself, consider doing it to protect your grandmother.

    2. While FDA authorization for children ages 12-15 is beginning, children under age 12 cannot get vaccinated yet. The risk of severe COVID symptoms in children is low, but it’s not zero. The virus has also been linked to a potentially serious condition in children called Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in Children (MIS-C). Until children can get vaccinated themselves, the best way to protect them is to vaccinate adults around them.

    3. Viral replication is suppressed by mass immunization, which may slow down the emergence of additional viral variants over time. While no vaccine is perfect, so far, symptomatic disease has been very uncommon in those who are vaccinated. However, it is not clear how well the vaccines will perform against all of the SARS-CoV-2 variants, so suppressing viral replication and preventing new ones from emerging helps to protect us all.

    It’s important to remember that getting vaccinated is not just about protecting yourself; it’s also about protecting those around you. In the long run, we will all benefit from herd immunity. The question that remains is whether we can actually get there.

    http://www.williamsonherald.com/opinion/commentary-why-should-i-care-if-others-get-vaccinated/article_96e737c2-b369-11eb-90ce-c79d7571ff9a.html
  • Philofile
    62
    like a selfish imbecile.Xtrix

    Jesus! Take it easy! The Corona war continues. I bet you wouldn't mind see Nosferatu hanging high...
  • Merkwurdichliebe
    1.8k


    In the past, pandemic class diseases have been eradicated/defeated with vaccinations that provided permanent immunity to individuals and ultimately prevented transmission and infection. But with Covid, experts are unclear as to the duration of immunity, whether from natural infection or vaccination. They have only determined that immunization, whether natural or synthetic, does not provide permanent immunity to individuals. They also lack sufficient data on how much the vaccine reduces the transmission of covid. This means that even if 70% global vaccination is acheived, future transmission and infection always remain possible. With this in mind, in what way does the current mass vaccination programming make herd immunity a viable reality?
  • frank
    8.5k
    But with Covid, experts are unclear as to the duration of immunity, whether from natural infection or vaccination.Merkwurdichliebe

    I think the vaccines works for about 8 months. Natural immunity varies, but it's not long, so it will be a threat from now on. I don't think we'll ever have herd immunity for it the way we do with measles.
  • Merkwurdichliebe
    1.8k
    I don't think we'll ever have herd immunity for it the way we do with measles.frank

    That's my thought. I'm still trying to find the current level of herd immunity the experts say we're at globally, but no luck yet.

    Anybody know?
  • Xtrix
    2.1k
    This means that even if 70% global vaccination is acheived, future transmission and infection always remain possible.Merkwurdichliebe

    But not as possible as 60%. No one knows when herd immunity is reached— there’s no exact number, but clearly the more the better.

    Regrettably, if we had the same level of vaccinations as we did with polio and other vaccines, we might have achieved herd immunity already.

    But, thanks to politicization, the social media-accelerated spread of misinformation, and a sizable percentage of the population primed for refusal through years of deliberate undermining of science (and facts, and truth) by conservative media, we’ve missed that chance.

    I don’t know what more it will take.
  • frank
    8.5k
    Regrettably, if we had the same level of vaccinations as we did with polio and other vaccines, we might have achieved herd immunity already.Xtrix

    Unfortunately, Israel has already shown that this isn't true. 78% over 12 vaccinated, no herd immunity.
  • Xtrix
    2.1k
    Regrettably, if we had the same level of vaccinations as we did with polio and other vaccines, we might have achieved herd immunity already.
    — Xtrix

    Unfortunately, Israel has already shown that this isn't true.
    frank

    That what isn’t true?

    78% over 12 vaccinated, no herd immunity.frank

    Again, we don’t know what number we need for herd immunity— but, as I mentioned, if we had a polio-level rate when that vaccine was rolled out, we might have reached herd immunity, or — without question — had far less hospitalizations and deaths.

    Also worth pointing out that 65% of current serious COVID cases are among the 17% unvaccinated in Israel.
  • frank
    8.5k
    but, as I mentioned, if we had a polio-level rate when that vaccine was rolled out, we might have reached herd immunity, or — without question — had far less hospitalizations and deaths.Xtrix

    I think the polio vaccination rate was around 80%.

    Also worth pointing out that 65% of current serious COVID cases are among the 17% unvaccinated in Israel.Xtrix

    And the other 35% are vaccinated. The vaccine wears off after a few months.
  • Merkwurdichliebe
    1.8k
    And the other 35% are vaccinated. The vaccine wears off after a few months.frank

    Then it is probable that amongst that 65% of unvaccinated, a substantial number includes those whose vaccine immunity has expired. Seems hard to keep track of these percentages when a vaccinated person can lose immunity over time and become a vector
  • frank
    8.5k


    I guess going forward they'll particularly encourage the elderly and people with chronic conditions to get vaccinated yearly or biyearly. And everyone else? I don't know

    BTW, they're predicting a bad flu season this year because of the lockdowns last year. Get a flu shot.
  • Xtrix
    2.1k
    but, as I mentioned, if we had a polio-level rate when that vaccine was rolled out, we might have reached herd immunity, or — without question — had far less hospitalizations and deaths.
    — Xtrix

    I think the polio vaccination rate was around 80%.
    frank

    Which, if true for the same timeline, would have — without question — reduced hospitalizations and death, and might have reached herd immunity.

    And the other 35% are vaccinated. The vaccine wears off after a few months.frank

    That is being studied closely, but appears to be true— at least in Israel. Those with boosters comprise far less than those with two shots.

    What’s your point, exactly? Or do you have one, besides making statements out of the blue, irrelevant to my post?
  • frank
    8.5k
    That is being studied closely, but appears to be true— at least in Israel.Xtrix

    It's true here. I'm in a study now. I was vaccinated in December and my antibodies were gone in August.
  • Xtrix
    2.1k
    That is being studied closely, but appears to be true— at least in Israel.
    — Xtrix

    It's true here.
    frank

    No. What’s been studied so far suggests less effectiveness after 6-8 months. There’s discussion about need for boosters. This is not the same as wearing off. This is also different than Israel’s situation.
  • frank
    8.5k

    Frontline healthcare workers are getting their third shots now.
  • Merkwurdichliebe
    1.8k
    It's true here. I'm in a study now. I was vaccinated in December and my antibodies were gone in August.frank

    Interesting
  • Merkwurdichliebe
    1.8k
    What’s been studied so far suggests less effectiveness after 6-8 monthsXtrix

    If the goal is herd immunity, the only thing that matter is how long individual immunity can be achieved through vaccination. Simply using the vax to reduce severity of infection does not bring us closer to herd immunity. It is common knowledge that vaccine breakthrough infections occur rather frequently with covid, making such a vector far more hazardous than an unvaccinated one.

    What is needed is a 99% effective vaccine that immunizes permanently. Until then, it's just thumbs up assholes.
  • frank
    8.5k
    What is needed is a 99% effective vaccine that immunizes permanently. .Merkwurdichliebe

    Yep.

    AndXtrix

    If you have an auto-immune disorder you can go ahead and get your third shot. Otherwise you'll have to wait your turn.
  • Merkwurdichliebe
    1.8k
    If you have an auto-immune disorder you can go ahead and get your third shot. Otherwise you'll have to wait your turn.frank

    3 shots already and the vax hasn't even reached its first birthday. Jesus Satan Mohamed!!!! One shot is surely reasonble. Two shots is awfully inefficient but tolerable. But requiring three shots is pushing it a little too to far. We already have two failed shots, how about they make it work right third time. How many shots is it gonna take, 20 billion?. . .40 gazzilion?
  • Xtrix
    2.1k
    What is needed is a 99% effective vaccine that immunizes permanently.Merkwurdichliebe

    No, what’s needed is for people to listen to the overwhelming medical consensus, get vaccinated, and follow protocol. It’s worked elsewhere, it can work here. We’re the wealthiest nation in the world, and we have currently some of the worst results. We’re a hot spot. Looking closer into the map, the cases spiking right now are among the states with high rates of unvaccinated people— mostly states run by Republicans. If refusal continues, there’s greater risk of more variants.

    The reason we’ve seen another spike in the US is because of vaccine refusal and hesitancy. This has nothing to do with boosters.
  • Merkwurdichliebe
    1.8k
    It’s worked elsewhere,Xtrix

    Where exactly has it worked?
  • Xtrix
    2.1k
    How many shots is it gonna take, 20 billion?. . .40 gazzilion?Merkwurdichliebe

    Is this a joke?
  • Merkwurdichliebe
    1.8k
    Is this a joke?Xtrix

    That's exactly what I'm asking
  • Merkwurdichliebe
    1.8k
    Looking closer into the map, the cases spiking right now are among the states with high rates of unvaccinated people— mostly states run by Republicans.Xtrix

    Sounds like you are partisan minded. Just a cop out
  • Xtrix
    2.1k


    Take a look at the world map displayed every day in the NY Times. Look at COVID hotspots. You’ll find the US around the same levels as Cuba and Mongolia.

    Plenty of other places doing much better, which are far less wealthy. This isn’t all due to vaccines, either, but a general following of medical protocol. Here we’re fighting school boards over masks.

    The issue are anti-vaxxers, ignorance, and misinformation
  • frank
    8.5k
    How many shots is it gonna take, 20 billion?. . .40 gazzilion?Merkwurdichliebe

    The vaccine makes your cells manufacture the spike protein. They could just genetically engineer everyone so we're all shaped like giant coronaviruses.
  • Xtrix
    2.1k
    Sounds like you are partisan minded. Just a cop outMerkwurdichliebe

    No, a fact. Maps and statistics aren’t partisan. But interesting that you’d take it personally. Pretty revealing.
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