So, your argument is that because doing the right things will scare too many Republicans who do not want to do the right things, that we ought not do the right things... — creativesoul

I'm not saying that at all. I'm just counting votes, and you're mistaking that for being anti-Bernie or anti-Bernie ideas, or campaigning for Biden

No matter how much Bernie supporters love his ideas, and no matter how right they may be, they each provide a maximum of 1 vote. You

You're giving a list of the things Bernie supporters love about Bernie. — Relativist

Bullshit!

You offered a very long list of fucking irrelevency , and then you had the audacity to ask what you had missed.

I fucking answered by talking about what's relevant. How about this...

Bernie runs as an independent and during the national debates clearly makes the case regarding how both parties have caused everyday average Americans harm by virtue of acting upon the best interest of corporations when their interests conflicted with the average everyday American's.


When faced with the choice between what's best for corporations and what's best for American citizens, they chose to err on the side of the corporations.

To be honest, there's little to no difference between the two parties when it concerns policies that have been implemented that resulted in disaster for an unacceptably overwhelming number of American families.

Bernie was right at the time.

It would also go a long way in showing Americans exactly why he has been railroaded. For who he is ans what he stands for. He stands poised with enough knowledge ready at hand to accurately inform the American people of the harm caused to them by both parties. He'll do so in clear understandable terms. They will then begin to really understand what the fuck has happened such that there are very few opportunities for having good healthcare, good benefits, good paying jobs, and thus the chance at a comfortable good life.

Imagine that.

Both parties.

Enough people would come to know what they ought to have long since already known, just by watching the conversation happen in real time.

Relativist: If Bernie does that, who will this convince to vote for him?

Anyone and everyone who wants to know what has actually been going on in the American government for the last fifty years that has caused the quality of everyday average American lives to plummet the way that it has. — creativesoul

In other words...Bernie supporters. You really aren't grasping what I'm saying. I'm not judging Bernie, or his desired policies. I'm counting votes. Bernie supporters are already counted, and so far - there haven't been enough of them.

Do you want someone like Trump who has no concern whatsoever beyond his own image and wealth? Do you want someone like Biden who does not have a clue how to fix all the problems facing the people he has convinced to vote for him? Not a clue

I get it: you want people to vote for Bernie. It's too late for me, the Texas primary is over. Do what you can to get that message out to voters in the states that haven't yet had their primaries. If the choice is as obvious as you believe it to be, then it shouldn't be a problem.

Relativist: If Bernie does that, who will this convince to vote for him?

Anyone and everyone who wants to know what has actually been going on in the American government for the last fifty years that has caused the quality of everyday average American lives to plummet the way that it has.
— creativesoul

In other words...Bernie supporters.... — Relativist

If anyone and everyone who wants to know what the fuck happened to American opportunity for the average everyday American counts as a Bernie supporter.

:meh:

Care to address what I actually wrote? I mean, I know your personal straw targets are easy kills, but come on man...

"The choice" presupposes knowing about the available choices.

What you seem to have signficant difficulty getting through your thick skull is that enough people will choose Bernie, when and if enough people are permitted hear him speak about the last fifty years.

The electability problem is that that is not being allowed to happen!

You offered a very long list of fucking irrelevency — creativesoul

I agree my list is irrelevant to your choice of whom to vote for.

Bernie runs as an independent and during the national debates clearly makes the case regarding how both parties have caused everyday average Americans harm by virtue of acting upon the best interest of corporations when their interests conflicted with the average everyday American's. — creativesoul

He can certainly do that, and it will guarantee Trump another 4 years.

None of this has anything to do with the issue I was defending: that Biden has a better chance of beating Trump than Sanders. Perhaps Bernie is the best possible person for the Presidency - I haven't disputed that. As I said, I'm just counting votes. The count is relevant to anyone who believes removing Trump is of paramount importance. Since you'd embrace a 3rd party run for Bernie, it sounds like you consider Biden and Trump as equally bad. That's your privilege. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise.

Care to address what I actually wrote? I mean, I know your personal straw targets are easy kills, but come on man... — creativesoul

You haven't addressed what I wrote, and I don't care to debate who's the best person for the Presidency. I'm primarily concerned with who's the worst.

I agree my list is irrelevant to your choice of whom to vote for. — Relativist

There still seems to be some sort of comprehension problem(s) on your part. Do you not understand what I'm saying?

Try this...

Your list is irrelevant to what needs discussed. Bernie is all about what needs to be discussed. You asked what was missing from your list of personal concerns.

I answered... all the important stuff.

I don't care to debate who's the best person for the Presidency.

What an odd thing to say given the context...

:brow:

What are you doing here then?

Bernie runs as an independent and during the national debates clearly makes the case regarding how both parties have caused everyday average Americans harm by virtue of acting upon the best interest of corporations when their interests conflicted with the average everyday American's.
— creativesoul
He can certainly do that, and it will guarantee Trump another 4 years. — Relativist

Another popular belief. Given third party showings in the past, if all else is equal, your concerns would be warranted. Who could forget Ross Perot?

They are not warranted, for...

All else is not equal.

Sanders/Warren...

Let the American people hear them and their explanation of what's wrong in America...

I don't care to debate who's the best person for the Presidency.


What an odd thing to say given the context...

:brow:

What are you doing here then? — creativesoul

I was discussing electability. Did you overlook this statement? --

Here's why I think Biden has a better chance to beat Trump than does Sanders:... — Relativist

They win, and they do so by telling the inconvenient truth to the American people.

In doing so, they will have created a more well informed electorate.

They win, and they do so by telling the inconvenient truth to the American people.

In doing so, they will have helped created a well informed electorate. — creativesoul

I admire your optimism.

The impediment to Sanders is all about whether or not those with the power to let the American people get to know Bernie Sanders by virtue of listening to him... do so.

Not doing so is a tremendous public disservice.

Trump loses at least twenty percent of his core working class supporters to Bernie Sanders...

Right off the top.

Let the American people know about all the relevant facts... then let them decide.

Knowing the facts requires Sanders/Warren on the national stage for the sole purpose of show and tell. They both know what they are talking about.

A free and fair election must include a well-informed electorate.

Clueless Joe...

I was Obama's vice president...

Big fucking deal.

Anyone remember plagiarism Joe?

Everyone will.

I can just see the smirk on Trump's face...

Clueless Joe.

Obama put Elizabeth Warren in charge of looking into the financial sector responsibility for the '08 crash.

Nothing was done with the information.

The people did not see it. They ought.

A free and fair election must have a well informed electorate.

Anything less is a public disservice.

The election ought be post-poned due to the corona virus.

Until it is deemed safe to have so many people in the same place. Until it is safe to cast a vote... Until then...

National debate after national debate after national debate...

Let Bernie speak!

Nah. That's not important enough to funnel into the brains of American society. Scare 'em and keep 'em in the dark...

Meanwhile advertising costs are through the roof.

Six huge conglomerate corporations decide...

How else do you think so many different satellites could be tuned in to and repeating the same narrative? It's a huge problem when so many are talking about all the wrong stuff and in all the wrong ways... wrong, that is... if we want to correct disastrous mistakes than can be corrected.

The fact that so few have so much power is one of those mistakes long since in need of being corrected.

The election ought be post-poned due to the corona virus. — creativesoul

It's funny that you mention that, because just this morning, I mentioned to my wife, "I bet Trump postpones the election due to the coronal virus". I was half joking, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if this comes to pass.

The groundwork has been laid to convince enough people.

Let Bernie speak to the American electorate. Let truth be told.

Six... multinational conglomerates determine what gets talked about and how...

There is no higher power given to the freedom of speech, for whomever sits on the board, be they American or otherwise, in addition to anyone else who has their ear... you know, those that they have business arrangements with and/or financial ties to... again, be they American or otherwise...

:brow:

Trump is not the problem! He is a symptom thereof. The problem is and has been that the American government is chock full of corruption. Trump seized on that overly simplistic and popular true belief, and convinced - somehow - enough people that he was not corrupt because he did not need the money.

All the bricks in the road of corruption that led directly to Trump look just like pieces of legislation. Some missing. Some in place.

Bernie can enumerate them. He was around during much of it. Tremendously outnumbered, but around... and on the right side of history while it was actually happening.

Clueless plagiarism Joe as the underdog?

Please.

Riding the coattails called "normalcy" and "getting things done". What's normal ought not be in many instances, and not just anything will do as far as getting things done. The right things need to get done.

That begins with a well informed electorate.

Don't believe me?

Look into Jared Kushner's influence in foreign affairs. That is prima facie evidence that the people do not realize what all the government has been up to...

What Jared is doing is perfectly legal.

What's wrong is that that is a conflict of interest between what's best for Jared and what's best for everyday average Americans. Jared is not an elected official. He serves on a personal level in a private capacity at the behest of one Donald John Trump.

Trump is not the problem. Rather, he is a symptom thereof. He is the inevitable consequence of a corrupted American government.