• waechter418
    19
    ....arguable the most common and certainly most original manner of Selfrealisation got in the course of mans histories discriminated as outcrop of ego, defamed as antisocial and reprimanded as immoral, whereas Self suffered denials and Will became synonymous with wishes and desires.

    There have been plenty of attempts, famously by Buddha and Lao-tse, to reconnect man to his so called true Nature/Self/Will/Atman, and were doubtless easier in “old times”, than in the current division/multiplication process (progress) that has become synonymous with western civilisation.

    In the Occident “Do what you will” was mostly confined to philosophical discussions and apparently neither understood nor applied as a way of Selfrealisation, since Will got divided into a divine and a human property, latter characterised by emotions (like wishes & desires) which in turn are the driving forces of its fragmentation.
    And as the latter seems to grow exponentially, and with it the confusion and helplessness of its subjects, Do your Will becomes more urgent than ever, as it overrides the restrictions of Dualism and thus enables Selfrealisation according to ones true Self/Nature/Will/Atman.
  • ovdtogt
    357
    arguable the most common and certainly most original manner of Selfrealisation got in the course of mans histories discriminated as outcrop of ego, defamed as antisocial and reprimanded as immoral,waechter418
    I think you should read 'Atlas shrugged' by Ayn Rand. That was her 'bug bear'.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged.
  • frank
    3.8k
    'Love and do what you will' is the western version. It's Neoplatonic.
  • Janus
    8.7k
    Yes, not Crowley's Thelema: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law".
  • frank
    3.8k
    Yes, not Crowley's Thelema: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law".Janus

    I knew you were a cabbalist. :razz:
  • Valentinus
    625

    I don't know. What if your descriptions of what previous traditions expressed were incorrect?
    How would one go about talking about that?
  • Janus
    8.7k
    Perhaps I should be? :wink:
  • Tzeentch
    457
    "Do what you will" as a starting point is untenable, since there's a psychological and philosophical process that needs to take place before one can truly understand what it is the self "wills".

    So, in my view, it is not so much the point of departure as it is the final station.
  • Wayfarer
    8.9k
    Love and do what you will' is the western version. It's Neoplatonic.frank

    Augustine, I had thought. And Crowley is as good a stand in as anyone for the anti-christ.
  • frank
    3.8k
    Augustine, I had thought. .Wayfarer

    Yep. Do you remember why Augustine said that?
  • waechter418
    19
    Do what you will entails the cognition: one is what one does = one does what one is

    Being spontaneous Will manifests Self unadulterated.

    The space/time of Will is here/now - and so is Self realisation.
  • waechter418
    19
    What is here called Self, is the core or coordinate of the mind/body - psyche/soma - relativity, and as such represents ones true nature, position and course in the universe
  • 180 Proof
    448
    Paraphrasing old Schop: Yeah, you can 'do what you will' but you can't will what you will (i.e. the switch doesn't flip itself on or off).
  • ovdtogt
    357
    I wonder what the world would look like if everyone did what they wanted? Most people just do what they believe they have to most of the time.
  • khaled
    1.1k
    Honestly, I don't think it would be so different. Soon enough people will realize that the most realistic way to do what they want includes doing some things you don't want and then we'll be back to the way the world is right now.
  • ovdtogt
    357
    The fact society operates as it does is testament that we are incapable of doing as we want. We are driven by our fears and desires and they more or less dictate how we behave.
  • khaled
    1.1k
    "Driven by our desires" and that would be the same in case everyone did what they wanted and eventually "Driven by our fears" would also be the case as people will use fear to get what they desire. But I'm not really interested in discussing this because very wide generalizations like these are not useful in any way shape or form
  • ovdtogt
    357
    if I am driven by a desire to own a Porsche, how does that make me do what I want?
    If I am driven by my fear of failure, how does that make me get what I want?
  • khaled
    1.1k
    I am driven by a desire to own a Porsche, how does that make me do what I want?ovdtogt

    "I am driven by my desire to own a prosche" and "I want a Porsche" are synonyms. If you do something because you want a Porsche you are doing what you want.

    driven by my fear of failure,ovdtogt

    Is an oxymoron
  • ovdtogt
    357
    Most people are not doing the job they want but the job that pays for the things they want.

    Fear of failure seldom leads to succes.
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