• waechter418
    19
    ....arguable the most common and certainly most original manner of Selfrealisation got in the course of mans histories discriminated as outcrop of ego, defamed as antisocial and reprimanded as immoral, whereas Self suffered denials and Will became synonymous with wishes and desires.

    There have been plenty of attempts, famously by Buddha and Lao-tse, to reconnect man to his so called true Nature/Self/Will/Atman, and were doubtless easier in “old times”, than in the current division/multiplication process (progress) that has become synonymous with western civilisation.

    In the Occident “Do what you will” was mostly confined to philosophical discussions and apparently neither understood nor applied as a way of Selfrealisation, since Will got divided into a divine and a human property, latter characterised by emotions (like wishes & desires) which in turn are the driving forces of its fragmentation.
    And as the latter seems to grow exponentially, and with it the confusion and helplessness of its subjects, Do your Will becomes more urgent than ever, as it overrides the restrictions of Dualism and thus enables Selfrealisation according to ones true Self/Nature/Will/Atman.
  • ovdtogt
    667
    arguable the most common and certainly most original manner of Selfrealisation got in the course of mans histories discriminated as outcrop of ego, defamed as antisocial and reprimanded as immoral,waechter418
    I think you should read 'Atlas shrugged' by Ayn Rand. That was her 'bug bear'.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged.
  • frank
    14.5k
    'Love and do what you will' is the western version. It's Neoplatonic.
  • Janus
    15.4k
    Yes, not Crowley's Thelema: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law".
  • frank
    14.5k
    Yes, not Crowley's Thelema: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law".Janus

    I knew you were a cabbalist. :razz:
  • Valentinus
    1.6k

    I don't know. What if your descriptions of what previous traditions expressed were incorrect?
    How would one go about talking about that?
  • Janus
    15.4k
    Perhaps I should be? :wink:
  • Tzeentch
    3.3k
    "Do what you will" as a starting point is untenable, since there's a psychological and philosophical process that needs to take place before one can truly understand what it is the self "wills".

    So, in my view, it is not so much the point of departure as it is the final station.
  • Wayfarer
    20.6k
    Love and do what you will' is the western version. It's Neoplatonic.frank

    Augustine, I had thought. And Crowley is as good a stand in as anyone for the anti-christ.
  • frank
    14.5k
    Augustine, I had thought. .Wayfarer

    Yep. Do you remember why Augustine said that?
  • waechter418
    19
    Do what you will entails the cognition: one is what one does = one does what one is

    Being spontaneous Will manifests Self unadulterated.

    The space/time of Will is here/now - and so is Self realisation.
  • waechter418
    19
    What is here called Self, is the core or coordinate of the mind/body - psyche/soma - relativity, and as such represents ones true nature, position and course in the universe
  • 180 Proof
    14k
    Paraphrasing old Schop: Yeah, you can 'do what you will' but you can't will what you will (i.e. the switch doesn't flip itself on or off).
  • ovdtogt
    667
    I wonder what the world would look like if everyone did what they wanted? Most people just do what they believe they have to most of the time.
  • khaled
    3.5k
    Honestly, I don't think it would be so different. Soon enough people will realize that the most realistic way to do what they want includes doing some things you don't want and then we'll be back to the way the world is right now.
  • ovdtogt
    667
    The fact society operates as it does is testament that we are incapable of doing as we want. We are driven by our fears and desires and they more or less dictate how we behave.
  • khaled
    3.5k
    "Driven by our desires" and that would be the same in case everyone did what they wanted and eventually "Driven by our fears" would also be the case as people will use fear to get what they desire. But I'm not really interested in discussing this because very wide generalizations like these are not useful in any way shape or form
  • ovdtogt
    667
    if I am driven by a desire to own a Porsche, how does that make me do what I want?
    If I am driven by my fear of failure, how does that make me get what I want?
  • khaled
    3.5k
    I am driven by a desire to own a Porsche, how does that make me do what I want?ovdtogt

    "I am driven by my desire to own a prosche" and "I want a Porsche" are synonyms. If you do something because you want a Porsche you are doing what you want.

    driven by my fear of failure,ovdtogt

    Is an oxymoron
  • ovdtogt
    667
    Most people are not doing the job they want but the job that pays for the things they want.

    Fear of failure seldom leads to succes.
  • Seagully
    10
    Buddha believed that all things are expressions of the mind, of an objective reality, therefor, Do What You Will means doing what the abstract reality wills.

    Meaning, when you are most yourself, when you are one with this reality, then you are manifestation of your pure will and "can't harm", or "only positive".

    In today's times, we can interpret it to this: Do what you will, as long as it's in line with the law.

    Of course laws can be corrupt, but the same values apply. We are all one mind expressing itself subjectively, therefor, we need governing rules, like the law, in order to maintain order to our subjectivity.

    People are more focused on achieving materialistic wealth than abstract wealth, e.g being one with the mind, the universal manner of thinking.

    What I'm trying to say is that in today's times, this universal manner of thinking comes through what most agree with: Aspects such as democracy, law, etc.

    it's also why philosophy is dying out, because most people fail to see the impact of abstract thinking in a world that is "expressing" its "mind" through materialistic means, such as the ones described above.

    Different times, same reality, basically.
  • ovdtogt
    667
    it's also why philosophy is dying out,Seagully

    Because philosophy should push against the boundaries of scientific knowledge and most people are scientifically illiterate.
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