• Shawn
    12.6k
    Here is Banno's profile. I command you to read it.

    Statements are combinations of nouns and verbs and such like; Some statements are either true or false, and we can call these propositions. So, "The present king of France is bald" is a statement, but not a proposition.

    Beliefs range over propositions. (arguably, they might be made to range over statements: Fred believes the present king of France is bald.)

    Beliefs set out a relation of a particular sort between an agent and a proposition.

    This relation is such that if the agent acts in some way then there is a belief and a desire that together are sufficient to explain the agent's action. Banno wants water; he believes he can pour a glass from the tap; so he goes to the tap to pour a glass of water.

    The logical problem here, the philosophical interesting side issue, is that beliefs overdetermine our actions. There are other beliefs and desires that could explain my going to the tap.
    ______________

    We know some statement when at the least we believe it, it fits in with our other beliefs, and when it is true.

    The "fits in with other beliefs" is a first approximation for a justification. Something stronger is needed, but material implication will not do.

    Discard Gettier. The definition is not hard-and-fast.

    It does not make sense to ask if we know X to be true; that's exactly the same as asking if we know X. The "we only know it if it is true" bit is only there because we can't know things that are false.

    If you cannot provide a justification, that is, if you cannot provide other beliefs with which a given statement coheres, then you cannot be said to know it.


    A belief that is not subject to doubt is a certainty.

    Without a difference between belief and truth, we can't be wrong; if we can't be wrong, we can't fix our mistakes; without being able to fix our mistakes, we can't make things better.
    Banno

    I have many questions; but, first you have a read and then, I'll proceed with the disjoint continuity I percieve in saying that beliefs need justification. Meinong's jungle, empty names, Santa riding on Pegasus, and all those family resemblances...
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    @Banno

    What are we to do about what goes on in Meinong's Jungle? Frege keeps on waking me up with nightmares and I have to soothe him by saying that he just needs to feed his beetle in his box.
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    Why the fuck this got moved to The Lounge @Baden, we all know Banno is the most experienced philosopher on this website.
  • Michael
    14k
    we all know Banno is the most experienced philosopher on this websiteWallows

    I'm hurt.
  • Baden
    15.6k
    Why the fuck this got moved to The Lounge Baden, we all know Banno is the most experienced philosopher on this website.Wallows

    Work out the non-sequitur there then get back to me with a better objection.
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    Work out the non-sequitur there then get back to me with a better objection.Baden

    Help me out, teacher. At least make the effort as one that you are, I don't have all the answers.
  • Baden
    15.6k


    A few questions:

    1) Did you ask Banno if you could analyze his ideas on the front page?
    2) What of substance did you contribute to your own OP?
    3) What specific philosophical topic is the OP aimed at examining?
    4) What's your thesis with regard to this topic and where is it?
    5) Recall being asked not to make too many topics? How many have you made in the past 24 hours?
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    1) Did you ask Banno if you could analyze his ideas on the front page?Baden

    Yes.

    2) What of substance did you contribute to your own OP?Baden

    It's an OP in Banno's name. And since, Banno isn't an imbecile as you think everyone else is, he would have enjoyed educating others about his feed on philosophy.

    3) What specific philosophical topic is the OP aimed at examining?Baden

    Go read it again.

    4) What's your thesis with regard to this topic and where is it?Baden

    Do beliefs require justification? Are facts mind-independent?

    5) Recall being asked not to make too many topics? How many have you made today alone?Baden

    Yeah, that personalized attack again. It's 3:49 AM and I made two topics, one got moved to the lounge without any fucking justification (you treat lepers better in India), and the other disappeared.
  • Baden
    15.6k


    You made at least 4 discussions in the past 24 hours. Stop making discussions for a while and when you do, please fulfil the elements of a decent OP as best you can as indicated by the questions. And calm down a bit. The lounge is not Calcutta or wherever you reckon all the lepers are. And I'm not oppressing you. We generally get on fine.
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    So, here's the grand question, which I hope you answer without any bluster.

    Is Banno's profile feed not good philosophy that I felt needed to be shared?

    Take a while to answer that, as it's comparable to a criticizing a lifetime of work by a selfless comrade.
  • Baden
    15.6k


    As I've tried to make clear, the move has nothing to do with the quality of @Banno's philosophy. I like the old goat.
  • Baden
    15.6k
    Look, if you don't like the decision, appeal it. I have a feeling though I'm actually one of the more indulgent of you among the mods. I reckon you're a decent guy despite the spurious leper references and non-sequiturs.
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    @Banno, would you be OK with sharing this on the front page, because I think it's brilliant shit. As this seems to be the trifle issue @Baden is trying to personalize towards me.

    BTW, Baden, I have nothing against you, I just think you're a really hypermasculine guy.
  • Baden
    15.6k
    BTW, Baden, I have nothing against you, I just think you're a really hypermasculine guy.Wallows

    Lol. Not since I started on philosophy forums. :nerd:
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    Lol. Not since I started on philosophy forums. :nerd:Baden

    I always assumed you were Nietzschean. But, you got a side that loves competition and duels. That's where we diverge, my two pennies.
  • Banno
    23.1k
    @Baden, so you think I wrote it so that no one would read it nor criticise it?
  • Banno
    23.1k
    Meinong's Jungle?Wallows
    Antigonish

    Last night I saw upon the stair,
    A little man who wasn’t there,
    He wasn’t there again today
    Oh, how I wish he’d go away…


    Words don't refer. Referring is something we do with words. So we can put words together that look just like they are referring; but don't.
  • Banno
    23.1k
    By the way, I'm blushing.
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    I fucking demand this be moved back to the front page, given Banno's post:
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    If you want me to redo this post @Baden, as it perhaps deserves better than what I can muster, then let me know whether it's missing a topic subject, introduction, etc. etc.
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    Words don't refer. Referring is something we do with words. So we can put words together that look just like they are referring; but don't.Banno

    But, descriptors, like Saint Nick is an old fat bloke that lives in the North Pole, refer to what exactly?
  • Baden
    15.6k


    Sure, but didn't know you wanted the full celebrity treatment luvvie.

    I fucking demand this be moved back to the front page, given Banno's postWallows

    Lol.

    If you want me to redo this post Baden, as it perhaps deserves better than what I can muster, then let me know whether it's missing a topic subject, introduction, etc. etc.Wallows

    Look at my questions above. There's no law against using Banno's ideas and crediting him. But you need to write a proper OP.
  • Baden
    15.6k
    Maybe pick one of his ideas and go with it.
  • Banno
    23.1k
    Why assume that descriptions must refer? Sure, most times that's what we do with them. But not always.

    Suppose we like chess, and play regularly. One day you set the board up for Chess 960 - random starting positions.

    "But that's not Chess" I complain. Well, yes it is. We've just modified some of the rules. It's fines o long as you keep track of whether you are playing standard chess or Chess 960.

    So it's fine so long as you keep track of whether you are wandering in the Meinong's Jungle or just doing standard existential stuff.
  • Shawn
    12.6k


    It's a stream of consciousness type thing. Picking anything out would be like pizza without tomatoes.
  • Banno
    23.1k
    Sure, but didn't know you wanted the full celebrity treatment luvvie.Baden

    Of courser I do. You know that.
  • Baden
    15.6k



    So, the proposal is Banno celeb pizza for the front page. I suppose if you put a bit more effort in to the OP, I wouldn't object. PM me your best shot. And this is me trying to be helpful, believe me.
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    Why assume that descriptions must refer?Banno

    Here's my takeaway from the Naming and Necessity thread, that you managed. Descriptors can attain the status of rigid designators. Do you object to this?
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    (I literally have Reference and Existence right next to me but haven't started it yet).
  • Baden
    15.6k
    Here's my takeaway from the Naming and Necessity thread,Wallows

    And here's my takeaway from the local Banno Pizzeria.

    hz0ojp136u82rig4.jpg
  • Shawn
    12.6k


    Well, yes, after all, everything is a goat.

    Does this need mentioning?
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