• _db
    3.6k
    The environment offers organisms certain constraints in which to operate. If an organism manages to procreate, then it has certain qualities that allow it to survive within the parameters set. Natural selection 101.

    However, the nature of constraint seems to offer a varying amount of freedom within the constraint. So long as the minimum requirements to survive are met, then any additional qualities are purely icing on the cake.

    This freedom can of course be limited by another constraint, most importantly that of scarcity. If space, nourishment, mates, etc are in a limited supply, then the satisfaction of these needs/desires is not guaranteed. From this initial constraint of scarcity comes the constraint of competition, and thus the cut-throat gladiator arena of life emerges.

    However, life is not just one continuous desperate panic to escape death and get laid, at least not usually, or at least not when we scale up in intelligence.

    Intelligence, or more specifically, reflective representation, would then be generally correlated to environmental manipulation, or the ability to change the environment (or yourself) to make your life easier. This ability offers organisms to refine the efficiency of their processes above and beyond the lower level of bare necessity. Can I sit down and program on a single small laptop, and thus get paid and survive? Sure. Can I do it better (defined as more efficient) with multiple monitors, and still get paid the same amount and survive? Yes. It's not necessary, but it allows me to minimize my effort and maximize my productivity.

    Thus, there exist "pockets" of freedom, in which adaptations in organisms are not specifically derived from a need to survive, but instead derived from other concerns. These concerns may be derivative from a need to survive. But all this shows is that freedom can develop beyond the initial need to survive.

    Because of this, I've been wondering how much evolutionary science can hope to explain in biological systems. In particular, I'm wondering about evolutionary psychology, which from what I have read in it tries to explain practically everything by appealing to the natural selection, or evolutionary "advantages". Religion, for example, is seen as evolutionary advantageous, and is somehow explained as a way of maximizing childbirth. Art and music, ditto.

    But if we take into account these pockets of freedom, then we can see how certain adaptations are entirely causally inert in regards to survival. The structure keeping the organism has already been met - any extra fuel will thus be used in pursuit of goals outside of survival.

    Of course, like said before, the existence of goals can be derivative from the need to survive, since goal processing would have been helpful in managing and implementing plans necessary for survival. This habit, then, is carried down from this initial need and "re-used" in processes outside of survival itself.

    So, in one sense, it does seem correct to say that everything we have and do are due to natural selection - we wouldn't have these basic derivative processes without natural selection. But in another sense, this explanation is so broad as to become meaningless, and discounts the existence of freedoms that aren't focused on survival.

    Therefore, appeals to evolution as an explanation for a phenomenon should be taken in caution. A phenomenon needs to be consistent with evolutionary theory, but it need not be entirely explained by evolutionary theory.
  • Wayfarer
    22.8k
    Natural selection as a biological theory, is one matter, but 'survival of the fittest', a term coined by Spencer, then spreads out into social darwinism and even into political philosophy; many have noted the comfortable fit between 'survival of the fittest' and laissez-faire economics. And then there is the over-arching positivist manifesto of 'replacing religion with science', of which Darwinian principles are at the forefront.

    Thomas Nagel nails this in his essay Evolutionary Naturalism and the Fear of Religion (in The Last Word), where he says that the fear of religion is one of the background factors driving the widespread acceptance of the principle of natural selection as a kind of 'theory of everything':

    IN SPEAKING OF THE FEAR OF RELIGION, I don't mean to refer to the entirely reasonable hostility toward certain established religions and religious institutions, in virtue of their objectionable moral doctrines, social policies, and political influence. Nor am I referring to the association of many religious beliefs with superstition and the acceptance of evident empirical falsehoods. I am talking about something much deeper—namely, the fear of religion itself. I speak from experience, being strongly subject to this fear myself: I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers. It isn't just that I don't believe in God and, naturally, hope that I'm right in my belief. It's that I hope there is no God! I don't want there to be a God; I don't want the universe to be like that.

    My guess is that this cosmic authority problem is not a rare condition and that it is responsible for much of the scientism and reductionism of our time. One of the tendencies it supports is the ludicrous overuse of evolutionary biology to explain everything about life, including everything about the human mind. Darwin enabled modern secular culture to heave a great collective sigh of relief, by apparently providing a way to eliminate purpose, meaning, and design as fundamental features of the world. Instead they become epiphenomena, generated incidentally by a process that can be entirely explained by the operation of the non-teleological laws of physics on the material of which we and our environments are all composed.
  • _db
    3.6k
    Interesting quote by Nagel, I believe I read it a long while back but forgot about it. Although I consider myself agnostic, I will admit that I hold a preference for atheism being true. There's also a book by Oxford that was recently released that apparently talks about how the theory of evolution was created in a context of scientific disenchantment and that Darwin's theory unfortunately evolved into Darwinism, or a secular religion of sorts.
  • Wayfarer
    22.8k
    Yeah there's a philosopher called Michael Ruse, philosopher of science, who has written a lot on the 'culture wars' around Darwinism. He's conscientiously atheist but a fair-minded critic and writer. He wrote an OP in the early 2000's called Is Evolution a Secular Religion? and then got into a lot of debates with and about Dennett and Dawkins, whom he accused of a kind of materialist fundamentalism. So now he is regarded as an 'accomodationist' by Dawkins, i.e. 'collaborates with the enemy'.

    //actually, googled OUP books on Darwinism and got this title, by Michael Ruse, it might be the very book you're talking about.//
  • _db
    3.6k
    Yes, Ruse is the author I was referring to.

    Oh, and fuck Dawkins, the pretentious and ignorant twat.
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    Because of this, I've been wondering how much evolutionary science can hope to explain in biological systems.darthbarracuda

    You're entirely right that natural selection functions as a restraint, but it's important to remember that natural selection is one of a myriad of evolutionary mechanisms, that, only when taken together, properly define what evolution is. In simple terms: evolution <> natural selection, although natural selection is part of evolution.

    Thus to properly speak about evolution, one must also take into account other mechanisms, such as niche construction (when a species adapts it's environment over time to be better suited to it), symbiogenesis (when two species co-evolve to the point that they become one species, or even 'part' of a species), co-adaptation (think flower and bee), genetic drift (variations in gene frequency), genetic mutations (changes in the DNA 'code'), sexual selection, as well as a bunch of other epigenetic factors. Evolution is complex because most of the time, it's a case of many of these mechanisms acting in concert, along with parameters like energetic constrains (especially important for abiogensis - the beginning of life), ecological carrying capacities (the capacity for an environment to sustain a population), and inter and intra species competition. Also important are questions of ecological robustness and network complexity, which help explain the 'arrival of the fittest' (or the 'evolution of evolvability'), rather than just the 'survival of the fittest'.

    So one must be very clear about what is being talked about when someone 'explains something on the basis of evolution'. This doesn't mean 'to explain something on the basis of natural selection'. Evolution is an extraordinarily complicated and multi-faceted theory, and for any one living 'function', it is important to specify - at a level more precise than 'evolution' - what mechanisms are involved in 'explaining' it. If you take all this into account, it's important to recognize that what you refer to as 'pockets of freedom' can in fact be 'built-in' to evolution itself. Niche-construction, for example, is pretty much just is what you call the ability to change the environment - but this is not 'extra-evolutionary', but part and parcel of evolutionary theory itself.
  • _db
    3.6k
    Interesting. I knew that natural selection was not equivalent to evolution but was under the impression that it was the most powerful force in the evolutionary process.

    In any case, evolutionary psychology is rife with appeals to "fitness" and natural selection as an explanation of behavior.

    The admission that evolution is not equivalent to natural selection, however, opens up the possibility that evolution is a distinctly metaphysical aspect of the world, i.e. we should look at the world through the lens of evolution.
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    Yeah, evolutionary psychology and it's twin cousin, sociobiology, and incredibly suspect 'sciences', and I think you're entirely right to find them so.

    As for evolution qua 'metaphysical aspect of the world', I think I'd prefer to speak about it more guardedly as simply continuous with the natural processes of ontogenesis with otherwise constitute the 'world' as such, albeit specific to the biological realm. This specificity itself is an interesting question, insofar as the issue of exactly what constitutes the 'unit' of evolution - the gene, the species, an ecology? - is one that's very much open. My intuition is that alot of what we can say in fact comes down to our methodological presuppositions, rather than any ability to 'carve the world at it's natural joints' as it were.
  • schopenhauer1
    11k


    I wrote this a while back in a "What is Love" thread:

    But see, this just shows you the very theoretical nature of evolutionary psychology. A lot of it is "just so" theories and hard to pin down what is an adaptation, or what is an "idiosyncrasy" as you might call it. There are many variables, biases, and cultural contingencies that make even an accurate hypothesis hard to distill. A lot of the mating game rituals have become their own runaway stories. Something was written down long ago, it became a trope, and the trope manifested as real in the culture, and the culture became the trope to a slight degree. What was originary and what was the trope becomes muddled. Then the trope is considered originary when it perhaps is not. Then, a reaction against the trope poses an opposite theory, but that is even worse as it is a reaction to a false original theory to begin with, and on it goes. Again, this comes down to the fact that much of it cannot be verified it "feels" true.

    Of course, like said before, the existence of goals can be derivative from the need to survive, since goal processing would have been helpful in managing and implementing plans necessary for survival. This habit, then, is carried down from this initial need and "re-used" in processes outside of survival itself.

    So, in one sense, it does seem correct to say that everything we have and do are due to natural selection - we wouldn't have these basic derivative processes without natural selection. But in another sense, this explanation is so broad as to become meaningless, and discounts the existence of freedoms that aren't focused on survival.
    darthbarracuda

    This is instrumentality in a way- making goals because there is no other choice. Life oppresses us with moving forward in a constant state of flux. Stasis would be non-existence. Your speculation is probably true regarding the origins of goal-seeking and its roots in survival and more specifically, survival within the framework of linguistic-based cognition.
  • wuliheron
    440
    Darwin rejected the idea of survival of fittest and claimed evolution was all about which species is more adaptable to the specific environment, while the joke is that, "Sex is never about survival of the fittest, but of the most creative". That's where I think evolutionary theory has yet to actually mature is that they are still thinking in strictly causal terms instead of more creative ones. For example, Donald Hoffman is a Game theorist who spent ten years studying all the neurological evidence and running one computer simulation after another, only to conclude that if the human mind and brain had ever resembled anything remotely like reality we would have become extinct as a species.

    Merely by assuming evolution is about survival of the most creative the more complex the environment becomes, it makes much more sense out of religion, psychology, and everything else. You might say everything that exists reflects the initial creative impetus of the Big Bang still expanding to this day. Mathematicians came to a similar conclusion recently upon examining causal physics and classical mathematics. They discovered that any number of simple metaphors, such as everything is composed of springs, strings, or even vibrating rubber sheets for all I know, can provide equally accurate explanations.
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    Therefore, appeals to evolution as an explanation for a phenomenon should be taken in caution. A phenomenon needs to be consistent with evolutionary theory, but it need not be entirely explained by evolutionary theory.darthbarracuda
    Couldn't agree more with this.

    In particular what bugs me is when people assume that any behavior or characteristic needs to be evolutionarily advantageous. All that's really required is that behavior or characteristics aren't evolutionarily disadvantageous.
  • Jamal
    9.8k
    Darwin rejected the idea of survival of fittest and claimed evolution was all about which species is more adaptable to the specific environmentwuliheron

    To my knowledge, Darwin actually embraced the term "survival of the fittest". And "more adaptable to the specific environment" is what it means.
  • wuliheron
    440
    A quick search on the subject confirms your opinion. Thanks for the heads up, it seems it is modern evolutionary biologists who reject the term. Evidently, Darwin was not terribly creative in bed. :)
  • Wayfarer
    22.8k
    'Survival of the fittest' was coined by Herbert Spencer, a slightly younger contemporary of Darwin. However as Jamalrob says, Darwin didn't object to the term, but it has since become rather non-PC due to its association with objectionable social darwinist philosophies.

    Spencer was a hugely popular philosophy in his day, perhaps like an earlier Dawkins, although nowadays he is hardly known outside the Universities.
  • wuliheron
    440
    Habits are the end of honesty and compassion, the beginning of total confusion! Academics attempting to be objective about everything have inspired people like Malthus, Hitler, and Dawkins who take it as license to spread hate in the name of survival of the fittest.
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