Very kind of you.
I won't be making any more fuss about off topicness.
A bit of a waste of time, as are some 'sorries'.
An apology is empty and meaningless if the action is repeated.

I only apologized because you’re right and I was wrong. The topic is very important and we should not lose track of it.

Surely BJ and JRM have to resign now?

Huge turn of events, not only Brexit but for UK history. The Supreme Court, just 10 years old, has never intervened in politics to this extent.

Why do you call it an intervention in politics? Why not say it is a decision based on constitutional principles?

Yes, the purpose of the Judgement was to maintain the integrity of the constitution, it had nothing to do with politics and certainly didn't stray into political affairs. It was necessary because if the judiciary hadn't acted in this way, it would have given carte blanche to Johnson to run rough shod over ( act as a dictator with) our political system at a critical juncture in our constitutional history. There was no choice, or alternative.

Why do you call it an intervention in politics? Why not say it is a decision based on constitutional principles? — Benkei

Unfortunately, that it is a political intervention is exactly what it is being wrongly portrayed as.
It is seen as an attempt to stop Brexit. Against the 'will of the people'.

Ken Clarke speaking of this:

The most important task is to decide as quickly as we can how we are going to move forward on Brexit. It’s not true, which is being repeated over and over again by ministers, that everybody who’s involved in parliament is just trying to stop Brexit, defy the people … I voted for Brexit three times with a deal on these three preliminary points. I think the best thing to do is to produce a majority in parliament on a cross-party basis –  — Ken Clarke

Someone commenting btl:

'That statement needs to be enforced, to stop the Beeb and the Tory gutter press using it for their populist agendas. Since they’re spreading lies and stirring up hate, they should be taken to task over it.'

I think that it should be 'reinforced' not 'enforced'.
No matter. I hope when Parliament resumes it hammers home the message and effectively counteracts the pervasive lies.

Lies and liars need to be called out as such. Using facts and evidence.

The argument that 'the law courts are interfering in politics' is very reminiscent of current American conservative politics, isn't it? It basically politicizes the judiciary so as to undermine its independence.

Huge turn of events, not only Brexit but for UK history. The Supreme Court, just 10 years old, has never intervened in politics to this extent. — NOS4A2

Since you mention UK history, it's reminiscent of King Charles I dissolving parliament against its will, and we know what that lead to.

and we know what that lead to. — S

And some of us have already started sharpening our axes.

Yes, Lord Sumption (former Supreme Court judge), on radio 4 this morning said that it was important that the court spoke with one voice because of the possibility that judges could be singled out for criticism of their judgement in the light of their views on the issue of Brexit. Thus compromising the independence of the judiciary. I'm sure that brexiters will be trying to do this and also worse, Johnson and his advisers are going to try to pit the people against the establishment remoaners, with Johnson as the champion of the people and their democratic decision. That the establishment is ignoring them and thinks that their decision was wrong and must be corrected.

Unfortunately for him, this course results in him undermining the constitution, parliament and the Crown, which will reflect very badly on him and his government. Also it will strengthen the opposition in Parliament.

Unfortunately for him, this course results in him undermining the constitution, parliament and the Crown, which will reflect very badly on him and his government. Also it will strengthen the opposition in Parliament. — Punshhh

Do you think his long-term strategy is a Trump-style populism, appealing to a narrow but highly mobilised and intensely partisan group of voters?

I don't know what his long time aims are, or his party, as he is surrounded by chaos and it is accepted that the strategy is in the hands of a shady unelected advisor Dominic Cummings. Who is a clever strategist who is well aware of how populism works at this time.

In my opinion, Johnson's long term strategy is to achieve the survival of the Conservative party, principally by winning back his support which has drained away to the Brexit party. This split has been going on for a couple of decades and will destroy the party if leaving the EU is not achieved. If he manages to secure a no deal Brexit he is the hero who fought off the Brexit party and restored the supremacy of the Conservative party. If he fails the party will sink into electoral oblivion and his supporters will be under attack from the socialist policies of a Corbyn government( they will have to pay fair taxes).

One might consider that the Conservative party is not in such peril considering their performance over recent times. But they are heading towards a demographic time bomb. They have virtually no support amongst the younger generation, which is swinging to the left. While their core support is steadily dying of old age.

So to answer you question he is not aiming to create an insensly partisan base, or something like that. But rather to restore the party and then everything can get back to normal and restore the good old days, which is, of course, a pipe dream.

Get Ready For Brexit.
Get creative and design a satirical poster - @Punshhh and any other artists, your time for fame ?

'Led By Donkeys' response to the government's £100m advertising campaign. They have a mock-up of a government website and an online tool that lets users design their own “get ready” poster.

'Comedy masterminds Armando Iannucci and David Schneider have kindly agreed to choose the best five entries which will go up on billboards in the real world. Deadline for submissions is Wednesday 2nd October at midnight. Good luck!'

Details here:
https://ledbydonkeys.com

↪Echarmion
I don't know what his long time aims are, or his party, as he is surrounded by chaos and it is accepted that the strategy is in the hands of a shady unelected advisor Dominic Cummings. Who is a clever strategist who is well aware of how populism works at this time. — Punshhh

Boris's strategy - and Cummings' is simple. To be the man who despite all the remoaners and cowards achieved Brexit. Ideally he wants to stick to his Oct 31st promise. But if parliament dictates an election first, he can get away with a few weeks' delay and campaign on the promise to do it as soon as he's returned with a majority. He can then repeal the anti-no-deal legislation and present the EU with an ultimatum to drop the back-stop and agree a new deal, or he'll leave with no deal.

I don't think he's much interested in the Tory party as a historical institution, but only as a party in his own image - just like Trump and the Republicans. All the older generation who care about the party's past have gone from the Cabinet, replaced by young hard-liners who will follow his will. Populism is about individual demagogues. The disillisioned Brexit voters trust leaders, not parties..

Why do you call it an intervention in politics? Why not say it is a decision based on constitutional principles?

I was just paraphrasing the BBC.

The UK's Supreme Court is just 10 years old, and the courts have, historically, not intervened in politics to this extent.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49807212

If he fails the party will sink into electoral oblivion and his supporters will be under attack from the socialist policies of a Corbyn government (they will have to pay fair taxes). — Punshhh

Nooooooooooo! That's evil! :scream:

That’s a fair look at it. All the more reason for a general election, in my opinion. Get the Brexit party in to achieve Brexit before the parties sink themselves and ruin their party principles, then once over return to politics as usual.

:lol:

So, do you think it's accurate then?

Boris's strategy - and Cummings' is simple. To be the man who despite all the remoaners and cowards achieved Brexit.

Yes the two aims are intertwined. I have long been of the opinion that he would prefer to go for a softer Brexit deal if his party was happy and the Brexit party wouldn't punish them at the ballot box. Firstly because he wasn't a brexiter until the referendum campaign and so is not himself a rabid leaver. Secondly he's intelligent enough to realise that a no deal Brexit will be hugely damaging, or at least a great risk and that he as prime minister would be in the firing line and fire fighting in crisis mode for months or years.

Also if you look back to Theresa May's term in office, she was visibly scared of the wrath of the ERG. This is why she felt unable to reach across the house and build a deal around a cross party consensus. Why she had to lay down her red lines and why they brought down her deal repeatedly, because they have always intended to ram through a no deal.

To me Johnson is like a cornered animal, not just cornered by parliament, but within his own party. With the spectre of Farage looking over his shoulder.

I don't think he's much interested in the Tory party as a historical institution, but only as a party in his own image - just like Trump and the Republicans. All the older generation who care about the party's past have gone from the Cabinet, replaced by young hard-liners who will follow his will. Populism is about individual demagogues. The disillisioned Brexit voters trust leaders, not parties..

I don't want to underplay the size of his ego/egomania. But party really does matter, because the support for the Conservatives is being squeezed in a few ways. To be in government requires a large number of MPs behind you and in our electoral system for those MPs to become elected comes down to votes on the ground, which are not easy to secure. And don't underestimate the fear amongst the party of a Corbyn government.

As far as I know. Is it inaccurate?

Nooooooooooo! That's evil! :scream:

They're literally shaking in their boots, lol.

Johnson plumbed a new low yesterday in Parliament, the sickest bit was when he said that the best way to honour the death of the mudered politician Joe Cox, was to leave the EU ( she was murdered by a far right extremist during the referendum campaign).

If you're not in the UK you can hear it by downloading the podcast on LBC radio, it was about 6pm last night.

I think it will get much worse. Basically, if you don't help me deliver Brexit, you are a traitor.
Really disgusted and appalled watching Parliament Live yesterday.
The attorney general set the tone going full attack mode. As for Johnson...
Here, as you say, is the worst example:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/25/pm-branded-a-disgrace-after-saying-best-way-to-honour-jo-cox-is-to-deliver-brexit

Now I need to take a break. Keep up the good work :sparkle:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/25/pm-branded-a-disgrace-after-saying-best-way-to-honour-jo-cox-is-to-deliver-brexit — Amity

Oh my god. Shocking.

Just look at the reaction to the defence of his remarks on Newsnight:

https://mobile.twitter.com/maya_rstw/status/1176979198667309058

*rant* It is surely time to remove this odious little man and elect the right honourable member for Old-fartery North to head a government of national unity to delay Brexit and call an election. We cannot continue to have a lying unrepentant criminal psychopath as prime minister. */rant*

I don't want to underplay the size of his ego/egomania. But party really does matter, because the support for the Conservatives is being squeezed in a few ways. To be in government requires a large number of MPs behind you and in our electoral system for those MPs to become elected comes down to votes on the ground, which are not easy to secure. And don't underestimate the fear amongst the party of a Corbyn government. — Punshhh

Yes the party matters as a means to elect MPs and get a government, but when the voters courted by populists vote they vote for the figurehead, not the party. If the Brexit Party makes inroads at the coming election it will be Farage its voters go for - the party un-ashamedly had no policies for the Euro elections! Likewise the Boris Party will be what its intended voters vote for. Yes many of them are Tories, but I think the era of allegiance to party rather than ideas and leaders is coming to a close. It is probably a temporary change however, and once Brexit is in the past old political tribalism will return.

It does look like we're getting the Boris Party, a fully fledged Machiavellian tyrant. Heading at full speed for a no idea Brexit (no deal Brexit), and a Trump deal. Fasten your seat belts.

The trouble is it is very high risk and he is a flawed character, the phrase on my lips today is,
Beware the ides of March.

Brexit is in the past old political tribalism will return. — Tim3003

Arguably, allegiance to a party is less tribal than allegiance to a person. Power in tribal societies is based on personal power, whereas parties represent more abstract values.