• Amity
    A Bridge connecting Scotland and Ireland. Majorly big distraction. Totally taking the piss.
    Why is he getting away with all this utter bullshit ? Another huge waste of time, money and resources.

    Johnson originally floated this idea in an interview with the Sunday Times last year. At the time his proposal was considered fanciful, but this week Channel 4 News revealed that government officials have been asked to produce a paper on the costs and benefits of such a plan.

    The original Sunday Times story about Johnson’s proposal provoked a memorable letter to the paper from a retired offshore engineer who said the idea was “about as feasible as building a bridge to the moon”
  • Michael
    Opinion from the Scottish court:

    When pressed on the meaning of the expression “non-justiciable”, counsel for the respondent conceded that in some circumstances the court might hold that the power to prorogue Parliament had not been validly exercised: for example, if Parliament were prorogued for two years, or if the governing party lost its majority at a general election and immediately thereafter attempted to prorogue Parliament. In my opinion that concession was properly made. What the concession acknowledges, however, is that the power to prorogue Parliament is subject to judicial review by the courts. For the reasons stated in the last paragraph I am of opinion that this is inevitable: the courts must have jurisdiction to determine whether any power, under the prerogative or otherwise, has been legally exercised.

    I was right in what I said earlier.
  • S
    "Penny for offshore accounts". Brilliant. :lol:
  • Punshhh
    I like the wood used to make the fire, as the Palace of Westminster is undergoing major refurbishment, it is constructed from timber taken from the Houses of Parliament.
  • Punshhh
    Yesterday he announced the commissioning of two new warships, which will be built in Belfast. More bribes to the DUP to get them onside. It's not going to work though, as it's their nature to never agree to anything.

    I was watching him on the TV lastnight playing with some kids with a model container ship, he was just like a two year old toddler playing with toys.
  • Punshhh
    Breaking news, Johnson is going to re-name Great Britain the Titanic.
  • Amity

    I was right in what I said earlier.Michael
    This: 'For the sake of democracy the judiciary must be able to rule on whether or not its intention and length are lawful.'

    I agree with your thoughts on this. As with the final Scottish legal opinion.

    Meanwhile Johnson and team have misrepresented the finding of the English court as being for them. It is not. And is now under appeal.

    We must wait for the UK supreme court. There is to be a 3 day hearing, starting on 17th September to look at all 3 appeals from Edinburgh, Belfast and London.
  • Amity
    Breaking news, Johnson is going to re-name Great Britain the Titanic.Punshhh

    Let's not be tempted to make this all about Johnson. There is another thread specially for him. It's easy to mix them up. Another thing I am guilty of is simply reporting the latest news. I forget where I am.
    Should we not be bringing in, and connecting, the philosophical perspective more than the political and legal ?
    At least, we are talking about 'democracy' and issues of media and social manipulation.
    Otherwise, this thread could just as easily be swept into a Lounge area? *
    Just thinking aloud...

    * Scrap all that. I see this thread is under 'Interesting stuff'- politics and current affairs not political philosophy :smile:
  • Punshhh
    Quite, when I think about the philosophy of this, I see populists muddying the waters and rubbishing any chance of the public considering the choices involved, or any means of determining the will of the people. All I can say is that the British parliament needs reforming now.
  • Amity

    Proroguing parliament - what a wheeze, eh?

    a clever or amusing scheme, idea, or trick.
    "a new wheeze to help farmers"
    synonyms:scheme, plan, idea, tactic, move, stratagem, ploy, gambit, device, manoeuvre, contrivance...
    — Online dictionary

    As well as avoiding scrutiny of a Hard Brexit, prorogation gives more time for the photo ops with children, bulls, police, fish and whatever as the PM tours the country electioneering.
    A benevolent dictatorship?
  • Punshhh
    A bumbling dictatorship.
  • ssu
    I would like to ask the British here one question, even thought of opening a different thread:

    What has happened to the Conservative Party?

    There might be not many that have actually voted for them (yes, I understand this is a Philosophy Forum), yet for a foreigner it looks that the party simply doesn't look like the one that was in power during the time of Thatcher and John Major. Especially it doesn't look conservative to me.

    What do people think is the reason for this?
  • Baden

  • Baden
    =Conservative Party :death:
  • unenlightened
    What has happened to the Conservative Party?ssu

    It's an interesting question and a complex answer. I would suggest two movements both originating in the US, and influencing through Thatcher and Blair primarily. The Thatcher effect is basically the neoliberal turn exemplified by 'there's no such thing as society'. - an ideological individualism justified by some Rand/ social darwinian philosophy. The Blair effect is basic populism, there is only one inviolable principle, 'get elected' - spin becomes fake news.

    The combination of individualism and amoral power seeking results in social collapse.
  • Punshhh
    I've seen it first hand. Older upper middle class Conservatives, became spooked by the Germans in the 70's and 80's. I don't think it was justified, I think it was an outdated wartime mind set which was becoming paranoid. It happened to my parents, who were Conservative councillors, who were involved in the twinning movement and went on many local government exchanges to German cities, and French ones too. But at some point, they became infected with this suspicion and once it had started, it became set in. This incubated under the surface for many years until the development of UKIP, which only deepened the mistrust and widened splits of opinion within the Conservative party. The rest is history.
  • ssu
    Thanks for the answers.

    I too believe that there is something of a more general phenomenon working here than just something unique to British politics. In Europe the main problem is that there hasn't been a proper way or entity to critique the flaws or the shortcomings of the EU integration and EU itself from conservative/right-wing stance leading to populist "fringe" movements taking over the issue, typically new political movements or parties that are basically defined just by their anti-EU stance and not much else centered around one politician. EU has only tolerated a pro-integration federalist discourse and paints anything else as "nationalist". As the political elites have gone along with this (with perhaps the exception of the UK starting with Thatcher), criticism has been left to the previous "fringe" populists. The outcome has been obvious: in many countries the political landscape has changed and especially centrist parties are having a tough time. And sometimes the populists can take over a right-wing party (as they can a moderate left-wing party too).

    Both in the US and in the EU the neoliberal development, globalization, has not only been criticized from the left, but also from the right, which is now obvious several years to the Trump administration. Neither the left or the right are happy with the power of lobbyists and corporations in present have. This can easily morph into populist anti-elitism. Once this populism gets into the political discourse, you are far away from consensus building and normal politics etc. as the last thing populists try to reach is a political consensus on the policies.
  • Echarmion
    EU has only tolerated a pro-integration federalist discourse and paints anything else as "nationalist".ssu

    The thing is, there has been, and still is, very little substantive criticism of the EU. Much of what is touted as "criticism" is, in fact, either nationalism or straight up lies. A sizeable portion of the people who voted for Brexit probably have nationalistic ideas. Just like a lot of the people who voted for Trump do agree with his stances on race, gender and nationalism.

    The truth about the EU is that a lot of it's faults, like the power of the commission and the relative lack of democratic legitimacy, exist because they work in favour of the national governments. They give those governments the power to push through unpopular legislation, with the added benefit of being able to later blame the EU and lament it's faults.
  • Benkei
    democratic legitimacyEcharmion

    And yet there are European countries part of the EU that are less democratic. The democratic deficit of the EU has been exaggerated for years now following a German constitutional court decision referring to a democratic deficit. But that turned on the matter that there's no real way to reconcile representation of the electorate (EU Parliament) with equal representation of states in international affairs (European Council and Council of Ministers). Both bodies need to approve laws even if the appointed Commission (by elected officials) is the body initiating bills.
Add a Comment

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.