• tim wood
    4.9k
    I can imagine exactly where you'd be scurrying to be in late 1930s Germany, and it's disgusting to think of. So deep, inextractable. Foul, uncleanable. And wrong.
  • ssu
    3k
    He can whip up the hostile press while running the most powerful nation the world has ever seen.NOS4A2
    Umm... let's be honest: any Republican President will whup up hostile press. Yet just what this criticism is really makes the difference.

    With a more able republican president the criticism would be the usual: that the policies benefit the rich, that it's laissez faire free market oriented and the usual. Not that the president is totally inept at his job: it would be just presumed that US presidents have minimum requirements.

    Reagan was laughed at and ridiculed to be just an actor only at the start of his first term.
  • 180 Proof
    1.6k
    I am the ...
    AMERICAN CARNAGE — DJT
    :vomit:
  • Banno
    8.9k
    He can whip up the hostile press while running the most powerful nation the world has ever seen.NOS4A2

    You misspelt ruining.
  • NOS4A2
    3.6k


    The media industrial complex had a little more credibility back then, let’s be honest. Just look at the lies of that Der Speigel journo. The fakest of news informs us. So it’s no surprise the ludicrous beliefs.
  • ssu
    3k
    Der Speigel journoNOS4A2

    You mean Der Spiegel? I lost your thought on this.
  • NOS4A2
    3.6k


    Yes. Disgraced journo Claas Relotius of one of Europe’s most influential magazines peddled lies to its readers about the president and his supporters. This is just one example of the misinformation that anti-Trumpers feast on.
  • Benkei
    3.3k
    He's grasping at straws because that story is old (2018), which, for instance, that "fake media rag" the wapo reported on. Leave it to NOS to elevate a single instance to a standard, while failing to see the pattern of fascistic thought, contempt for the law and cronyism of the Trump administration.

    Der Spiegel has one bad article and is untrustworthy. Trump lies everyday and he's a hero. NOS is the worst type of fool or paid.
  • NOS4A2
    3.6k


    He's grasping at straws because that story is old (2018), which, for instance, that "fake media rag" the wapo reported on. Leave it to NOS to elevate a single instance to a standard, while failing to see the pattern of fascistic thought, contempt for the law and cronyism of the Trump administration.

    Der Spiegel has one bad article and is untrustworthy. Trump lies everyday and he's a hero. NOS is the worst type of fool or paid.

    The president is not a journalist and never has been, so holding him to the same standards as the people who are employed to inform us is stupid at best.

    It wasn't just one article, a single instance, as Der Spiegel itself found Relotius to have fabricated around 14 articles. This is an egregious example, surely, but there is plenty of media mistakes that one can cite.

    I can offer plenty of examples of these mistakes, while you offer exactly zero of Trump's "fascistic" thought crimes.
  • Michael
    9k
    The president is not a journalist and never has been, so holding him to the same standards as the people who are employed to inform us is stupid at best.NOS4A2

    The President should be held to a lesser standard than a journalist? The President isn't supposed to inform the country? What planet are you from?
  • NOS4A2
    3.6k


    Who would you rather inform the public, journalists or politicians?
  • Michael
    9k
    Who would you rather inform the public, journalists or politicians?NOS4A2

    About things that concern government activity? The President, of course.

    And you've already made it plainly clear that you don't like it when journalists use anonymous sources in their stories but believe everything that Trump and the White House say. Make up your mind.
  • NOS4A2
    3.6k


    About things that concern government activity? The President, of course.

    Good luck with that.
  • Benkei
    3.3k
    Nice cherry picking. I do mention three issues. Let's start with his multitude of lies and work our way up from there.

    Cronyism and contempt for the law. Obstruction of justice, having Barr intervene with Flynn. Commuting Roger Stone's sentence. Appointing family members to governmental positions. Giving out government positions to wealthy donors.

    Fascism. His suggestion to postpone the election, activating federal officers to kidnap us citizens, the Bible bullshit, his on the fence reaction to racist protests ending in violence, retweeting racist and xenophobic shit.

    But yeah, head in the sand, nothing to see here.
  • Maw
    2k
    The president is not a journalist and never has been, so holding him to the same standards as the people who are employed to inform us is stupid at best.NOS4A2

    I agree, presidents should not be expected to inform people. They should be expected to take photos with Goya products, play golf twice a day, and tweet at 3am. That's it.
  • NOS4A2
    3.6k


    Nice cherry picking. I do mention three issues. Let's start with his multitude of lies and work our way up from there.

    Cronyism and contempt for the law. Obstruction of justice, having Barr intervene with Flynn. Commuting Roger Stone's sentence. Appointing family members to governmental positions. Giving out government positions to wealthy donors.

    Fascism. His suggestion to postpone the election, activating federal officers to kidnap us citizens, the Bible bullshit, his on the fence reaction to racist protests ending in violence, retweeting racist and xenophobic shit.

    But yeah, head in the sand, nothing to see here.

    Trump has 25 pardons, 11 commutations. Compare that to Obama's 212 pardons, and 1,715 commutations. So big deal. Barr said Trump has never asked him to intervene, so you're inventing things without evidence. And there is nothing inherently wrong with appointing family members to government positions—RFK for example—or to donors, especially if they are not benefiting from it. Speaking of grasping for straws.

    You don't know what fascism is. The federal officers are doing their job, protecting federal property and citizens from violent rioters and insurrectionists. As for tweets and retweets, this is the sound of me playing the world's smallest violin. You need a thicker skin or you won't be able to survive in this world.
  • Michael
    9k
    About things that concern government activity? The President, of course.

    Good luck with that.NOS4A2

    So you finally admit that we can't trust what Trump and the White House say about what they get up to? Glad we got there in the end.
  • Michael
    9k
    Barr said Trump has never asked him to interveneNOS4A2

    But we can't hold him to the same standard as journalists because it's not his job to keep us informed, so we can't assume he's telling the truth.
  • NOS4A2
    3.6k


    So you finally admit that we can't trust what Trump and the White House say about what they get up to? Glad we got there in the end.

    If you make a habit of trusting politicians you're going to have a tough go. The proof is in the pudding, not in the words.
  • NOS4A2
    3.6k


    But we can't hold him to the same standard as journalists because it's not his job to keep us informed, so we can't assume he's telling the truth.

    You can't assume he's not, either, and for the same reason.
  • Michael
    9k
    If you make a habit of trusting politicians you're going to have a tough go.NOS4A2

    All you do is trust Trump and distrust anyone who says anything critical of him. It's all fake news and Democrat hoaxes and Trump Derangement Syndrome to you.

    You can't assume he's not, either, and for the same reason.

    His actions have shown that his priority is to protect Trump from any accountability, so I have good reason to assume he's lying. And let's not forget that time he was caught lying when he announced that Geoffrey Berman had resigned. Or that time Judge Walton called Barr's summary of Mueller's report "distorted" and "misleading".
  • fdrake
    4k
    "It turns out Republicans can accept a batshit insane candidate so long as it's consistent insanity" - Christopher Wylie
  • NOS4A2
    3.6k


    All you do is trust Trump and distrust anyone who says anything critical of him. It's all fake news and Democrat hoaxes and Trump Derangement Syndrome to you.

    All of which was borne out by the results. He was right.

    His actions have shown that his priority is to protect Trump from any accountability, so I have good reason to assume he's lying. And let's not forget that time he was caught lying when he announced that Geoffrey Berman had resigned. Or that time Judge Walton called Barr's summary of Mueller's report "distorted" and "misleading".

    As Barr said in his most recent testimony, he used the language "stepping down" (not "resign", which is a lie) because this is the sort of language they use to offer flexibility after being removed, in this case Barr wanted to offer him another position the next day. Instead he got fired.
  • Benkei
    3.3k
    Numbers are meaningless. It's about who and why. Obama mostly pardoned people who were convicted of drug crimes, already did substantial time and were sentenced during the war on drugs with mandatory minimum sentencing. Trump pardons Arpaio and his stooges.

    Michael and I already explained the rules that apply in Oregon and what the difference is between detainment, arrest and kidnapping. It's clearly kidnapping if it's neither an arrest or detainment. Clearly fascist. And you're happy to side with him and excuse the worst.

    As to cronyism, that others did it is not an argument in favour of it and you seem to misunderstand what it is ; the appointment of friends and associates to positions of authority, without proper regard to their qualifications.

    Kudlow, Kushner and his team of failures on corona is killing us citizens. Herman Caine and Stephen Moore to the federal reserve. Really? Various ambassadors.

    As to Barr denying having been asked. That might even be true; a good dog fetches the paper before the master asks. Even so, when a criminal goes out of his way to deny the crime, we are to believe him? It was highly irregular and fits the pattern we are to expect of cronies. While circumstantial, it is evidence of wrongdoing.
  • Benkei
    3.3k
    All of which was borne out by the results. He was right.NOS4A2

    Wrong. He wasn't right. He was protected by Republicans in Congress.
  • Outlander
    470
    Numbers are meaningless. It's about who and why. Obama mostlyBenkei

    Mostly? Numbers are meaningless.
  • StreetlightX
    5.9k
    Daily reminder that Trump is a failure and NOS is a sycophantic piece of shit.
  • Benkei
    3.3k
    I haven't reviewed all 1792 cases. Have you? I find plenty of problems with the few things Trump had done in this field. Even so, even if Obama was worse (which he wasn't), that - once again - doesn't excuse Trump.

    It's pretty annoying really that this specific fallacy keeps being repeated on a philosophy forum.
  • tim wood
    4.9k
    I fear that Trump is collapsing into the mere absurdity he always already was. Like a carnival tent ripped apart by wind, pieces now lying about in dust and trash. He is, ultimately, banal. But one sustained by great evil and criminality. In my opinion it is essential to lay out and lay bare every bit of it, because the evil is not gone. Criminals tried and punished hard. And the history, complete, published and distributed to every library and available at less than cost to anyone. I should like Biden to assign that as a several year's task. Complete investigations with complete disclosure and transparency. All held to account. Trump's administration is our Santayana moment.

    And it's interesting. Biden the old man, if he does a right and good job, may well earn a spot in the ten-best, even five-best.

    But cleaning up and cleaning out after Trump, history, indictments, trials and all, will be a task beyond Herculean. It will take the combined efforts of an entire administration. I hope to God Biden is up to it.
  • StreetlightX
    5.9k
    Biden's election will probably smooth the transition to the next Trump as his middling will inevitably disappoint everyone and, as conditions deteriorate further in the absence of any systemic change, cause the political ratchet to click one more to the right as it has done for the last 50 years of American politics.
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