• Leandro Monzon
    1
    Don't take mind altering substances such as cannabis unless your ready to face your faults and meet them head on . I found that weed EXPOSES your weaknesses , take it apart because you have the duty to write your own story . It's ok give in to the things you CAN control . You're right you do have a problem but its not what you might think , most of the time is fear .
    -Leandro M.
    1. Has cannabis exposed your weaknesses and did you work on them . (5 votes)
        Yes
        40%
        No
        60%
  • Ying
    397
    No, and I've been trying for over 18 years now.

    Protip: Check if you're smoking an Indica or Sativa and check the thc/cbd ratio if possible. CBD has anti psychotic properties while THC on it's own has the possibility to induce the more negative effects of a cannabis high. So what you're looking for is a strain with balanced thc/cbd ratio's if you're looking for a high that's not likely to turn into an ordeal.
  • Cavacava
    2.4k


    You need to smoke more, although I don't smoke that much anymore, vaping baby!

    Welcome to TPF
  • BC
    13.1k
    “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

    Bene Gesserit, Litany Against Fear
  • TimeLine
    2.7k
    You need to smoke more, although I don't smoke that much anymore, vaping baby!Cavacava

    This is the worst advice I have ever seen.
  • TimeLine
    2.7k
    Don't take mind altering substances such as cannabis unless your ready to face your faults and meet them head on . I found that weed EXPOSES your weaknesses , take it apart because you have the duty to write your own story . It's ok give in to the things you CAN control . You're right you do have a problem but its not what you might think , most of the time is fear .Leandro Monzon

    Cannabis can have a more potent impact on those with pre-existing mental health issues that could increase the risk of making this condition more severe, particularly to psychosis and depression/anxiety that leads to a reliance on the substance due to the temporary alleviation of the symptoms. The reasons for mental health problems need to be understood and resolved and not by using substances, but by seeing a psychologist and perhaps taking medication if necessary.
  • Anthony
    197
    People who are out of touch with themselves are probably less likely to want to face themselves through depersonalization to begin with, less likely to take a substance that would interfere with their inner hide and seek games they play with themselves (internal conflict). People who are unaware of themselves and stuck in first person, looking out into the world as a place they're never a part of, and projecting their own "demons" out into the world as a consequence of their dysfunctional intrapersonal domain, such people are already against drugs, usually. Actually, I've learned there are supremely stupid people who make a value out of fight or flight, and most of the time these types are at least aware they shouldn't take mind expanding substances inasmuch as they know it will make them even more volatile. Fools that live this way tend to mistake metacognition and metaphysics for demon possession or something evil, when it is actually the other way around...ignoring inner contemplation to understand the relationship between components of mind opens the door to breaks in consciousness.

    As a fan of more psychosis in a world devoured by damaging neuroses, I advocate smoking pot if it leads to psychosis. Psychosis is really the only cure for neurosis. In our day, neurosis is a subtle problem and at once a real threat to the soundness of the social character. The problem is that once neurosis, and the repressive engine which it creates, reaches a tipping point the person can no longer maintain balance in themselves; ego and neuroses go hand in hand, but ego is made of instinct and can never escape its influence on cognition. Instinct always barges in after its been repressed by excessive neurosis, and always outside the person's control...effectively, the breaking point threshold is lowered due to neurosis and repression. As I see it, peaceful people with psychosis are actually far more balanced because they respect their instinct and don't block it in favor of ego or the pestilence of norm determined neuroses. Usually such people know themselves far better since they aren't having to constantly deal with neurotic, norm-driven blocking of instinct. In other words, psychosis doesn't block and so gets along with the entire psycho-dynamic schema within. There is no intrusion of unwanted thoughts derived from repression. In the ironic and radically socially determined ethos of our time you may have been led to believe psychoses are a condition associated with mental illness....this isn't true. When there is no blocking of instinct and primary process, there are fewer repressions and the components of mind communicate more fluidly without neurotic and manic impulsiveness which is enforced by the ignored instinct. It depends on to what extent the person has spent their lives trying to escape from the entire continuum of consciousness, which includes the antidote to neurosis and the impulse control illnesses which stem from such blocking. Impulse control problems are such because they're derived from repressions, which have gathered a kind of agency of their own...though the agency is the blocked off part of yourself coming back to haunt you in an altered form different slightly alien and different from the original neurotically repressed material. Indeed there are some people who shouldn't touch hallucinogens...but it is more likely to be people acutely out of touch with themselves from severe psychoneurosis than people who are peacefully psychotic. The majority of people with "mental illness" aren't violent. And violence, again, is derived, impulsively from a body of material the ego has kicked out (though this is impossible as the instinct always boomerangs back into itself - remember neurotic ego is made of instinct - and reclaims what is itself...but it does it in a way unrecognized by the lubber ego).

    Fear is a vague term. However you could say that, in the aforementioned context, fear is of one's own instinct and of psychosis; or you could say that someone is such a control freak, he is afraid of his own unconscious thought processes, or maybe he thinks his own subconscious is a demon or alien. Study cynicism to learn the value of shamelessness in getting over what keeps you divided in your self, the external locus of control that arises in fear of social disapproval, allowing yourself to be punishable and rewardable by other organization and not self organization. The social domain is of import to psychal wholeness but to let it divide you within is to give it too much importance. Indeed there is a trending belief that most psychiatric problems stem from loneliness and boredom. To me it is the opposite, imbalance of mental processes results from inability to see the value of being alone and the danger in needing to constantly distract yourself into a kind of primary narcissism (first seen in helpless infants) tech-driven virtual reality of overconnectedness. The more connected people are on their phones and virtual realities, etc., the more disconnected they are within themselves. Most would rather be "possessed" by other people than by their own anima these days...not good. This could go into a further tangent though, and maybe I've already done enough of that here for now.
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    The plant get's a lot of bad rap for making people docile and bad consumers or at least consumers of the wrong products.

    But, I've learned not to be a big fan of self-medicating. However, we prescribe speed and cocaine in a pill for kids that can't focus in school, while cannabis has yet to show any persistent long-term damaging effects in adults, even those with schizophrenia. Go figure.

    Just don't smoke high THC strains if you expect it to solve your issues related to anxiety. Most of the pot nowadays is really strong stuff.

    The receptors that THC targets are heavily concentrated in the limbic system of the brain, so mood-related issues like anxiety or depression (never heard of either one in isolation) can be overwhelming to the first time user. I personally cant smoke pot socially, only in the safety of my home in peace and quiet.
  • Anthony
    197
    There is also something like a split-brain condition that results from smoking a lot of skunk. The THC receptors are densely concentrated on the corpus callosum and heavy use can lead to lesions in this nerve bundle that connects the hemispheres therein messing up the connection of the "brains."
  • Shawn
    12.6k


    I have to say that your previous post about psychosis is highly interesting. What are your thoughts about psychosis long-term effects on the mind? My impression is that the ego becomes irrelevant or miniscule after many occurrences of psychosis. This is a BIG issue to deal with for some in a society that idolizes big egos and the pontification of it thereabouts.

    Some people think that the mind becomes shattered or broken after a psychotic episode, if by which you define "shattered" or "broken" as rather "disillusioned". But, that's not something I entirely agree with.
  • Cavacava
    2.4k
    CBD may protect against psychiatric risk from high-THC cannabis strains
    Indiana U neuroscientists find cannabidiol reduces symptoms such as impaired memory in adolescent mice simultaneously exposed to THC
  • TimeLine
    2.7k
    As a fan of more psychosis in a world devoured by damaging neuroses, I advocate smoking pot if it leads to psychosis.Anthony

    Congratulations, this is by far the most ridiculous comment I have ever read. So, rather than working through and understanding the cause of neurosis in order to prevent the severity of the condition spiralling to something even worse, you say "let's get worse!"

    Psychosis is defined as:

    "A severe mental disorder in which thought and emotions are so impaired that contact is lost with external reality."

    They are no longer capable of distinguishing reality and in their delusions tend to hear voices and hallucinate, are consistently agitated and often have problems speaking and articulating themselves. They are completely lost, whereas neurosis is defined as:

    "A relatively mild mental illness that is not caused by organic disease, involving symptoms of stress (depression, anxiety, obsessive behaviour, hypochondria) but not a radical loss of touch with reality."

    So when you say:

    Psychosis is really the only cure for neurosis.Anthony

    What you are actually saying is commit mental suicide and no doubt the reasoning behind this is a tactic to avoid the distress that it causes when attempting to ascertain the cause for having neurosis in the first place. All it does is prove the very fear you speak of as it is clear that is what is causing you to escape into a preference for the complete annihilation of the mind along with the freedom and responsibility therewith.

    The excuses to avoid facing responsibility is so typical, like a neo-Nazi delusional enough to ensure the continuity of his ideology through holocaust denial.

    There are causes for the condition, it does not just pop out of nowhere but it is there because there are a number of causal factors that you can ascertain and work through including the identification of your own personal and behavioural patterns that exasperate mental health conditions for the worse. Your health including what you eat and how you sleep, as well as how much exercise you do. The state of your brain and development, neglect during childhood, hereditary and other biological factors and if it is too hard for you to be able to ascertain the quality and reasons for your feelings, seek help. There are professionals out there that can use both pharmacological - depending on the severity - together with CBT and other psychotherapeutic support.

    The greater your understanding of yourself, the greater control that you are in and fear itself is the feeling of being out of control. The continuity of such faulty thinking is caused by a number of reasons, but mostly because your interpersonal cognitive discourse is shaped in a way that supports your fears rather than tackling it head on. Like that garbage about advocating for psychosis.
  • Anthony
    197
    I never claimed to have a common view on mental health. Perhaps I couldn't prescribe what works for me. Everyone is different. And while I have no grand consummate theories about it, there are some observations that have taught me all is not what it appears. Indeed psychoanalysis teaches us of the "god of irony" which tends to rule the common understanding of things. Psychosis was far more accepted up until the modern age of radical social neurosis, dark triad, and instant feedback through the wonderfully dominant hold telecom has in defining what is mentally healthy while ignoring implicate orders of psychic wholeness. CBT is perfect for the age of smartphones...only I don't think the way it's playing out is very holistic at all for what it means to be an adult and responsible for integrating your undesirable and disliked side of yourself. I will pick apart your post later. CBT is NOT what it seems...it is more likely to lead to increased social mania, neurosis, and a break in consciousness due to the promotion of pseudo contact in oneself and in relationship. In short, it is childish as it doesn't lead you to own yourself as an whole human being with subconscious processing, and it ignores certain undeniable elements of mental process. Most of the people I know who go around talking about being more positive all the time are immature powder kegs, manic, easily offended. It reminds me of the modern advice to avoid toxic people....which sounds fine if you say it fast enough...save how can you be sure you your self aren't toxic? Is it because you practice CBT? Suffice it to say there are some problems with this way of thinking.

    If you think the age old advice of Know Thyself is misguided...at least be open to the concept that you have mental process going on whether you are aware of it or not. Indeed I have an issue with CBT...glad you brought it up. Regardless of how many people believe in it...CBT is the most ridiculous concept I've ever heard and I think it will lead to increased occurrence of a host of psychiatric illnesses and projection of inner demons out on to other people rather than ever owning them and integrating them into a system of self-generating, organizing, and regulating consciousness. The danger of projecting your own undesirable qualities and emotions onto other people when you deny them in yourself is too likely with CBT. But then this is another insight gleaned from psychoanalysis...which is more applicable in the age of narcissism than ever before. Are you familiar with the process of projection and introjection as they occur in the human psyche? It doesn't seem you understand their role in creating a psyche that hides from itself that doesn't trust itself.

    ]Suffice it to say I don't trust people who aren't honest with themselves....such as a psychoneurotic, manic narcissist. Not that all people who take selfies have deep seated issues...yet it is clear that a dynamic psychiatric illness - narcissism - has made it's way into the social character. Not good. CBT is for narcissists...and it is they who are the toxic ones. Actually, as I see it, it's likely CBT may even lead to a bipolar condition. And yes, I realize we have to look at the social systems and norms (whether or not empirical expectations of behavior are sound, right?) when addressing these questions. And yes I am going to say there are an ever increasing amount of socially patterned defects one can't ignore in defining an "ecology of mind." The mind begins its illusory fission of itself by splitting the world into concepts like positive and negative valences, heaven and hell, good and evil if you will. You split the two, repress the undesirable side and make a war against the undesirable side because you haven't found a way to deal with it, while making it the repository of all your unwanted qualities and emotions somewhere out in the world , but never in your own psyche. But this is only the beginning. Ever wonder how the enemy is demonized in military psychology? Something like this goes on in a confused INTRApersonal mental process, only such people are split against themselves in internal conflict, and they are indeed competing with themselves...which is why it is so important to know how this compartmentalization of mind begins. People have depression and anxiety for a reason if you'd believe that. When meds are prescribed and CBT, it leaves the problem open, never resolved, unintegrated. There is an irony here and if I seem to champion a world beyond ego that includes the entirety of the psyche opposite psychoneurosis, including instinct...then indeed you are correct. Honestly, since when was not life defined by ups and downs? When was it that the most bizarre belief we should always be up came into the popular, and rather unconscious, mind? Too much order and forcing will lead to disorder.

    Lastly, and if I comment any more it will probably be along these lines, what I'm saying is that psychoneurosis is not such a mild problem as perhaps you and many people believe, it has amplified into a condition as serious as it is common. There are several reasons this is so, which I may get to later. And just what does it mean at its core to be out of touch with reality?
    Does it not mean to be out of touch with yourself? Of course it does. And this is where I'll argue neurosis has as yet unrecognized seriously injurious role in making people compete against themselves almost like the two sides of the brain tend to do. And as there are steps one can take in his spiritual practice which diminish the domination of the left brain over the right there are steps that will lead to a more integrated, non neurotic mental process. And I'm saying the answer will look a lot like psychosis in a world that has crossed the rubicon into a delusory acceptance of neurosis as benign. It isn't. Ta.
  • Shawn
    12.6k


    And yet you fail to mention the positives of induced psychotic episodes as seen by psilocybin and LSD. Many psychologists and psychiatrists are waiting in great anticipation when these tools can be harnessed to treat deeply depressed memories or traumatic events, obviously in controlled settings and under the guidance of someone who can help ease the arising anxiety, and with the proper screening methods too to prevent the emergence of more enduring forms of psychosis.
  • Anthony
    197
    I understand. It's just that, especially with all the public shootings and such, it's clear to me that ego dissolution is usually associated with a laving the mind of violence, which is at the core of the most serious personal and social problems. How is it that Violence itself isn't an end diagnosis rather than something like depression or anxiety? E.g., so and so was diagnosed with Violence. What causes violence inside of an individual? Also, haven't you ever wondered if disorder could be the result of too much order rather than not enough? The arm of Apollo is dominating our times in extreme ways and he is in cahoots with Procrustes. Give me some Dionysus, please. I'd only care so much about being functional if I thought I were out of touch with myself enough not to recognize violence as somewhat or to a large extent induced by ever increasing Procrustean social norms. Seriously, why do we think society is a source of perfect order? Think of the just world fallacy.
  • Shawn
    12.6k


    Yes, but I am a firm believer in reason. My first experience with psilocybin was truly a terrifying and psychotic experience. Let us not forget the palpable delusions and disorganized thinking that arises during psychosis. If anything I just became aware of how many issues I had condensed into a short and unpleasant experience.
  • Shawn
    12.6k


    I believe that acts of great violence, such as public shootings as seen recently or the Las Vegas shooter, are bona fide psychotic experiences, although greatly distinct from the typical connotation of schizophrenia. Somehow the mind is left intact during these psychotic acts of violence...
  • Anthony
    197
    And I think it is the result of violence within the shooter, which is likely caused as much by socially sanctioned psychoneurosis as psychosis. What causes violence within the individual? But I'm not really connecting neurosis or psychosis with violence...violence is it's own condition in my view. Which is why I don't think a psychotic break out of nowhere is responsible....there is a long buildup that may be from neurosis more than psychosis. For me, psychosis and neurosis are on the same spectrum, which is why it is so strange people think one is so different than the other. It seems one (neurosis) stops with anthropocentric fallacy where people tend to be infantile before each other, while the other (psychosis) includes the truth, that humans exist in a universe of incomplete information, the universe doesn't end where social norms say it does, really. Social norms may be and often are quite wrong and unhealthy. But how do you know if a psychiatric illness is socially patterned or not?
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    And I think it is the result of violence within the shooter, which is likely caused as much by socially sanctioned psychoneurosis as psychosis. What causes violence within the individual?Anthony

    No idea, the interpretations vary greatly. Most people who go to war come back with PTSD, yet they don't seem to disproportionately cause crimes when back from the war-zone to society. Sometimes suicide seems like the only option available to them to prevent themselves from losing control.

    So, lack of control? Control seems to be the issue, no?
  • unenlightened
    8.7k
    What causes violence within the individual?Anthony

    A big question. But one can also ask, even more heretically, 'Is violence within the individual?

    I suggest that (the expression of) violence is normalised socially, to the extent that is almost becomes a realistic career option. If you can't get a decent job, and don't fancy flipping burgers and being destitute and despised, try multiple homicide, no qualifications or experience necessary and a good chance of hitting the headlines and trending on twitter.

    To put it another way, the madness of the oppressed in society is by definition escape or revolution - drapetomania or some version of rabidity.

    Perhaps it is the repressed, projected violence of society that finds - shall we ironically call it a safety-valve? - in the weakest most alienated individuals.

    On the op's topic more specifically, I would suggest that drugs that expose the madness of normality can be therapeutic to a mad world, but should be treated like a sacrament, that can awaken one to one's folly, but that should not be used habitually so as to become incorporated into it.
  • Anthony
    197
    It is noted you go to the example of war, and I agree that the war model is usually there at many subsystems of society. I've heard and somewhat believe that in every tete a tete relationship (the only kind that exists in my view), one is dominant and the other submissive. Are these kinds of control dramas necessary? If not, what must the individual do to decondition himself from such adolescent and otherwise harmful effects of social domestication? Another example: most believe in reciprocal relationship, which is fine on the surface, but should human relationships really be run like a business with tab keeping and all? Clearly not. Whatever we do, we should shine like the sun and expect nothing in return. Ever realize the destructive side of exchange value of relationship? Lex talionis: eye for an eye is the same thing: death penalty is another form of what reciprocation and exchange value of relationship produces. Relationships don't work if they're run like a business with exchange value, though perhaps just being friends who know each other's weaknesses is something else. Then the destructive process of projection and introjection and the neurosis it involves are less involved. Where did we learn to hide our weaknesses?

    The extent of self awareness that must be repressed in a soldier returned from war is basically unimaginable. No doubt all that is left of him is derived from repression and he returns with nothing but death instinct. But I don't think instinct in general is a monster like that...it's a matter of how you treat it. Note: I do think military/war psychology can be examined to understand a main source of violence; though this is basically self evident I'd hope. Truly I feel sorry for a lot of those tortured souls that are anything but antiwar. If you aren't antiwar, maybe you have a war inside you. Check out ahimsa (Hinduism): it's another concept from the east which makes most western concepts on reality and mental health seem like kindergarten. Ahimsa goes as far to say what is the most subtle form of violence, which is for one person to make another feel inferior. The thing is, when this has been understood, you'll find yourself having to be submissive in your relationships with others, which is one way of breaking the cycle of violence and hate. You have to see the truth that this power struggle is fully dysfunctional in order to be able to absorb other people's violence from the world and dissolve it, though. Which requires shamelessness, but sometimes speaking truth to power, though of course in a manner outside the dysfunctional and socially sanctioned dominant-submissive violence so often at the center of "relationships."
  • Shawn
    12.6k


    Yes, and paradoxically the less you own the more in control you feel. So, much for capitalism if people knew such a thing and applied it in life? Maybe the Cynics we're onto something and the Stoics just a bad copy that tries to make itself feel special?

    Anyway, I feel as though we're at an impasse so I'll return to the OP.

    Namely, (in the majority of cases) drugs are a means to escape the torture on not feeling in control of one's life. Escapism put another way. Sorry don't have much to say, you know feelings and all being 'irrational' and such...
  • Anthony
    197
    Anyway, I feel as though we're at an impasse so I'll return to the OP.Posty McPostface

    Oh, okay. No problem. My posts have had maybe too much meandering and logorrhea. It's not really about drugs to me, meditation, holotropic breathing, drumming, lucid dreaming, astral projection, getting lost in the woods, automatic writing, flow, and other methods achieve the same thing. We have to realize the illusion of mistaking the map for the territory to begin with and there are only so many ways to do this. This is what I mean when talking about preconscious processing, and the possibility some are afraid of it and don't trust themselves. This is an arch ego problem...sometimes people are so mechanical and controlling they equate ego death with physical death. They probably can't be helped and may never correct their blindness to their condition.

    We unquestionably live in a time where the zeitgeist imparts an irreal feeling of being in control through calendars, mechanical clocks, big data, algorithms, machine learning, instant communications, smartphones, social media, internet of things, and most other technics. None of this addresses the "technology" of introspection, though, which is what's important. Some entheogens make one feel more sober than sober so as to become brutally honest with oneself, it's nothing to do with feeling intoxicated or escape that's for sure. It cleanses an imagined, overly literal reality and opens up the imagination showing you some of those hidden subconscious processes and metaphoric images and emblems of your life; seeing the raw processes of the mind at work is beneficial to mental health, to see what is more clearly without anything added to it.

    Those who think deep inner work is unnecessary may be right for them, who am I to say. Unfortunately, I am usually left thinking these people are too impressionable and mean to stay away from something maybe a little too much of an open, non self-generated, system within themselves. I can only say wholeness is necessary, of this I'm sure. Another irony: even though it seems perhaps stupid in a world of instant information...it's absolutely necessary to be more of a closed system to information and organization and process what's already in you. Many folks are so open to an over informed and over organized human system....I can't imagine how they interpret all the moving parts as a unity. What is there to interpret, right? You have to have the ability to turn off the waterfall and watch some of the fish swimming in the pool at the bottom; generate yourself, organize yourself, and regulate yourself.
  • TimeLine
    2.7k
    And yet you fail to mention the positives of induced psychotic episodes as seen by psilocybin and LSD. Many psychologists and psychiatrists are waiting in great anticipation when these tools can be harnessed to treat deeply depressed memories or traumatic events, obviously in controlled settings and under the guidance of someone who can help ease the arising anxiety, and with the proper screening methods too to prevent the emergence of more enduring forms of psychosis.Posty McPostface

    What are the benefits of these isolated experiences, exactly?

    You also appear to be purporting that induced psychotic episodes are the only real method of enabling a person to accept and articulate trauma, which is simply wrong.
  • TimeLine
    2.7k
    And while I have no grand consummate theories about it, there are some observations that have taught me all is not what it appears.Anthony

    Of course not. Have you ever encountered someone where, when you told them the truth about a flaw in their personality, they respond in their shock with denial before attacking you or your character, involving gossip or sometimes slander in order to have other people side with them against you so as to avoid the anxiety? This type of narcissism would prefer insanity than facing the truth. If you say the exact same thing, but nicely - such as using 'examples' in other people rather than being directly about them - then, while they may still be shocked, nevertheless appreciate you for opening their eyes.

    Our dreams manifest symbolically our subjective conflicts where we can interpret and articulate consciously our unconscious realm and express what we actually think and feel. Our perceptions and interpretations conflict for a number a reasons, mostly because of learned behaviour and our ego. In the end, our reason and rational faculties regulate our perceptual and behavioural responses and we should work hard to ensure that - like we do our bodies - we keep our mind active and strong through learning, knowledge and articulating our personal experiences.

    Drugs does not help you do this.

    CBT is NOT what it seems...it is more likely to lead to increased social mania, neurosis, and a break in consciousness due to the promotion of pseudo contact in oneself and in relationship. In short, it is childish as it doesn't lead you to own yourself as an whole human being with subconscious processing, and it ignores certain undeniable elements of mental process.Anthony

    This to me is merely denial. Criminals hate police because they want to commit crimes and while there are bad policeman that would therefore justify such a hatred, the fact is that the reason why criminals hate law enforcement is because they do not need such obstacles to their desired behaviour. There may be bad psychologists, but that is not the real reason why people express their rejection of psychotherapy.

    First of all, you make little sense here. How is talking to someone going to "break consciousness"? The only thing the CBT does is teach you practical, self-reflective skills that enable you to approach your own personal story and experiences and find the confidence to articulate it. This can be achieved by writing, communicating, even art. By confronting your own experiences and overcoming the self-defence mechanisms that prevent you from facing them, you reinforce an independent willpower that allows you to overcome the root causes of your neurosis.

    I saw a woman have a hysterical episode at work, our receptionist who was laughing hysterically and crying uncontrollably at the same time and there was nothing we could do to stop her and get her to hear us or even see us, despite her being there. It was frightening to say the least, her eyes staring wildly out into space as she laughed and cried, and when she came to at the hospital, she herself said she was extremely frightened and had no idea what happened. How exactly can you be lead to your "whole human being" when such a dramatic and uncontrollable psychotic episode does nothing of the sort.
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    What are the benefits of these isolated experiences, exactly?TimeLine

    http://www.maps.org/research

    You also appear to be purporting that induced psychotic episodes are the only real method of enabling a person to accept and articulate trauma, which is simply wrong.TimeLine

    Where did I say that? I'm an advocate for rationally based therapy, be it logotherapy, CBT, dialectical therapy, REBT, psychoanalysis, etc. Some cases are difficult to treat, so if there is a need then I'd also be willing to consider the other options mentioned in that link, not deny them based on years of prejudice against a drug.
  • Anthony
    197
    Drugs does not help you do this.TimeLine

    I prefer the term entheogen or psychedelic (manifesting the mind/soul), or sacrament. Drugs, like antidepressants harm people, likely physically and mentally, can increase suicidal behaviors and impulsiveness, aren't a cure, but a palliative. Psiloycbin, on the other hand, increases empathy in a lasting way clearly opposite to, say, the effects a smartphone in our tech obsessed society may have in decreasing consciousness and empathy in the individual. Neurologically, psychedelics prune 5ht2A serotonin receptors (and others), which are associated with depression, suicide, and other psychopathologies. A lot of how I think isn't steeped in the mania and unconsciousness of scientific or statistical fundamentalism or in radically over mechanicalized, machine determined, "life." And there are even implications in the school of "cognition" which aren't true for my way of thinking. Cognition is subsumed by consciousness, not the other way around. Cognition is a concept connected with computer science rather than consciousness/mind and indeed it is absurd to consider "computation" or "information processing" (such as a computer might do) as part of a transpersonal, non ego centered consciousness. Science, after all, still can't measure the invisible subjective world in the individual...only the individual can go there in himself, and he doesn't have to make any computations to do so. That said, I don't bar cognitive science from my way of understanding...i just call it Mind (instead of cognition; though they have many of the same connotations, it is as though cognitive science is trying to do away with Mind since it is immeasurable, more radical materialism/mind as brain/computer flimflam; Mind science).

    Entheogens impart a feeling of unity or oneness with the cosmos that is truly hard to come by in a world where anthropocentrism (humans' God complex as laid down in Genesis) and behaviorism dominate human relationships and tend to distort intrapersonal intelligence as well. The individual must not be over dependent on other people for his well-being. Yes, this is a part of well-being, having honest and warm human contacts (not pseudo ones through cognitive dissonance or social media)...yet there are many requirements in conforming to a market society that are in themselves not conducive to mental health (such as the need to market yourself...whoa!...an astonishingly pretentious notion not congruent with what is the whole person). The defective patterns in social environments and institutions are as deserving to be labeled mentally ill as anything in an individual's head. War? I'm anti war. Many people have a war going on within them, and they usually support military psychology's role in civilian society. What's that all about? Is it rooted in Abrahamic religion like so many other dysfunctional elements of human inter/intra personal skills? The battle between good and evil, right (Zoroastrianism)? Though there are reasons why people compete with themselves and are internally conflicted, some genetic, some from no autonomy, some from dysfunction in society. This is what interests me...what are some of these reasons?

    I've described a few internal psychodynamics in the previous post, which are the source of either a peaceful or violent schema, but apparently it wasn't convincing and makes little sense. I may have to say it again in a different way or just keep repeating it until not ignored. However, I don't really desire to convince anyone of my way of thinking as different people have different needs for their eudaemonia, at least I'd hope. There's no one-size-fits all or standard for all individuals' mental health (if there were one answer for everyone...we'd be automatons...stuck in mind killing mimesis). In a very real sense, it is up to the individual to regulate himself as only he has access to the source of consciousness. And only he can spot perversions and blindness that may be a part of the society he is in, which threaten to reflect in and diminish his own consciousness. There are sacrifices, for holistic mental health, one has to make in his lifestyle you may never suspect or have thought an alternative when the social character is sick. Blaming the individual has become so mentally lazy. There are virulent forces in society that ruin people's mental health...many of which it appears the majority of people are blind to...or if people are aware of the dysfunctions in society, why do they go on and conform anyway, thereby contributing to what is a runaway shortcoming of mental clarity? Said psychogenic illnesses can become a runaway contagion at large when so many think they are coping when they are actually spreading unconsciousness and causing more psychiatric illness. The herd instinct, for example, is a big problem for mental health in my view: one that leads to unconsciousness on a massive scale. I have a few ideas for a horror story along these lines...zombie apocalypses have become kitch...but the plot would have something to do with what happens when everyone loses metacognition.

    Finally, here is a link to a good site on the subject of plant medicine: http://reset.me/ These plants have been used successfully in shamanism for millennia. Only very recently in history has collective man's picture of himself become so distorted as to have banned their use. How to make the law (plants produced by natural law) illegal by dreaming up a rule of behavior against the medicinal use of plants is lost on me and not included in my autonomous observance of living networks of health before human games.
  • Anthony
    197
    Have you ever encountered someone where, when you told them the truth about a flaw in their personality, they respond in their shock with denial before attacking you or your character, involving gossip or sometimes slander in order to have other people side with them against you so as to avoid the anxiety?TimeLine
    It's not for me to tell someone about what only they can possibly know, or discover in themselves. Being honest with oneself tends to be a non transferable skill, either you have it or you don't. Or you finally admit your aren't being honest with yourself, but this will be the result of introspection. We can't actually inform each other's self-generating, organizing, and regulating ecology of mind, we can only trigger what's already there in another.

    Our dreams manifest symbolically our subjective conflicts where we can interpret and articulate consciously our unconscious realm and express what we actually think and feel. Our perceptions and interpretations conflict for a number a reasons, mostly because of learned behaviour and our ego. In the end, our reason and rational faculties regulate our perceptual and behavioural responses and we should work hard to ensure that - like we do our bodies - we keep our mind active and strong through learning, knowledge and articulating our personal experiences.TimeLine
    Working with lucid dreams is an important approach, which is again a purely intrapersonal domain. I could never show you my dreams if I wanted to. And it isn't for another to do my own inner work of dream interpretation. Really though, what you've said here can't be taken issue with. I agree in the importance of articulation and self-exploration through art, writing and most all domains which include mental imagery in some way or another. Mental imagery is a non transferable domain, which is why we have to work there alone and understand the importance of being self-organized within.

    This to me is merely denial. Criminals hate police because they want to commit crimes and while there are bad policeman that would therefore justify such a hatred, the fact is that the reason why criminals hate law enforcement is because they do not need such obstacles to their desired behaviour. There may be bad psychologists, but that is not the real reason why people express their rejection of psychotherapy.TimeLine
    Who is "criminals"? Who is "police"? Legalism, eh? Laws are the business of the universe, not man; rules of human behavior in jurisprudence often don't make sense because they don't incorporate universal laws of biology, physics, or consciousness into their dictum. In other words, it is possible for a criminal to be a better person and more mentally healthy than a "law" abiding citizen. Criminals just deal with the actual, honest law, and often times don't respect what doesn't make sense in the rules of behavior, under the misnomer appelation "law." I don't follow "laws" (rules of behavior) that don't make sense (were it a law I would have no choice) for my self-information. The ones where I'm aligned with universal law, such as not making another feel inferior, or not harming another, are sacred virtues I'd follow even if it were against the law (rules of behavior, or empirical expectations of norms) to do so. We're using the word "behavior" a little too much for me, for example, as there's little doubt in my mind behaviorism has played its part in screwing up lucidity in the non transferable inner realm of the individual. Behavior means little to me, it is so far downstream. What's important in cleaning up in a person begins way before their behavior, which is the reason why only the individual himself can do it. Perhaps intention is part of it, but even intention is a very limited concept. There are components to the mind and how they communicate with each other anent differences that make a difference, which the individual must get around via transpersonal experiences. Otherwise, the person looks from a part of himself at the whole, which doesn't work. You have to be able to engulf your whole psyche to see clearly the emergent property, or synergy of it. Psychiatry may have produced some disparaging names for this act of compassing oneself...not my problem; experiencing oneness is one of the pillars of sound mindedness. I've often thought monism and understanding its implied generative order as a font of the mind is important to psychal wholeness and eudaemonia. If you don't know where your own mind begins and ends as a process, the adumbration of it the process if you will, you won't know much about how to make a unity of it, which is a problem. If you don't know what it feels like to be crazy, you certainly don't know what it feels like to be sane. You can't take somebody else's word for your own metaphysical and metacognitive framework.

    I saw a woman have a hysterical episode at work, our receptionist who was laughing hysterically and crying uncontrollably at the same time and there was nothing we could do to stop her and get her to hear us or even see us, despite her being there. It was frightening to say the least, her eyes staring wildly out into space as she laughed and cried, and when she came to at the hospital, she herself said she was extremely frightened and had no idea what happened. How exactly can you be lead to your "whole human being" when such a dramatic and uncontrollable psychotic episode does nothing of the sort.TimeLine
    Sounds like it would've been quite an experience for her and those around her. As I've said, there's no one prescription for everyone. Some people do just have issues and breaks with the "whole picture" that is necessary to keep things in perspective. Perhaps they are too impressionable. It's clear though, that perfectly adhering to collective beliefs could be the incipience of hysteria, as I have little doubt in the truth of mass hysteria as a possible source of hysteria in the deindividuated person. What else explains why so many people believe in the same fundamentalisms and have so many of the exact same behaviors? For the longest time slavery was legal even though there were reflective individuals who knew it was wrong all along. The collective hadn't the slightest clue what was going on.

    To your example: ...it sounds like the receptionist may have had issues with cognitive load. In which case she should have quit her job or asked for a new position as the correct sacrifice (though obviously she may have had other environmental problems). If it were entirely genetic or from weak internal self-generation, organization and regulation, there is little anyone could have done for her.
  • Anthony
    197
    Some cases are difficult to treat, so if there is a need then I'd also be willing to consider the other options mentioned in that link, not deny them based on years of prejudice against a drug.Posty McPostface

    Actually, the prejudice is relatively new...humans have had a very long standing relationship with plants on the Earth. That any plants are illegal is mind boggling. Maybe there would be less of an opiate epidemic if people were allowed to use the poppy plant itself.
  • Shawn
    12.6k
    Maybe there would be less of an opiate epidemic if people were allowed to use the poppy plant itself.Anthony

    I don't entirely agree with this sentiment although I've heard that before the world wars many drugs were legal at the time and people weren't buying hoards of speed or opiates to remedy their problems. Drugs, for the matter, have always been or have become a social issue once made illegal. I don't mean to spew libertarian sentiment against big government; but, people can be irrational, and even more so when under the influence of drugs.
  • Anthony
    197
    I don't entirely agree with this sentiment although I've heard that before the world wars many drugs were legal at the time and people weren't buying hoards of speed or opiates to remedy their problems. Drugs, for the matter, have always been or have become a social issue once made illegal. I don't mean to spew libertarian sentiment against big government; but, people can be irrational, and even more so when under the influence of drugs.Posty McPostface
    Well, from my perspective, there's plenty about life itself that is irrational, is irrationality not a means of knowing what's rational? The warp and weft of circumstances themselves make people insecure and makes changes in biochemistry, the variance is always at the individual level, though, so to use the word "people" is slightly inarticulate. Our bodies are basically chemical factories; you are drugs. The brain produces a tryptamine that has actually been made illegal. The dumbest thing ever. You're illegal.

    Portugal is having less of a problem with abuse after legalizing all drugs. Not that I'm an advocate of all drugs, it's just an interesting social experiment with the target of improving health.
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