Why does it take mass murder with guns for people to notice and condemn violence?

WISDOMfromPO-MO

Violence is everywhere in this creation called civilization.

Yet people who are not "civilized" are said to be violent. They are "barbaric", or something like that. Go figure.

Some of the violence in what we call civilization is consensual. You know, things like football players willingly and knowingly destroying their bodies--and, now we know, their brains--as part of America's "real national pastime" (sorry, baseball). It is violence, nonetheless. Glorified, celebrated, nationally-televised violence. Cities like Oakland, CA and San Diego, CA mourn their loss of the privilege to be a host of and site of such violence.

In the United States of America at least, we love violence.

We are constantly reminded by academia and the news media in the West about threats like ISIS, North Korea, etc., but are they really responsible for a lot of the violence in the world? It seems to me that it has been the West--you know, the "civilized world"--that has funded and marshaled the overwhelming bulk of global violence in recent history.

I believe that the verbal abuse I have taken much of over many years working in "customer service" is a form of violence. And it is encouraged ("The customer is always right"). One thing is for sure: people do not save their violence for trivial matters. What could warrant a verbal assault more than 20-packs of Coca-Cola being out of stock and only 12-packs being available?

Violence in civilization is as abundant as oxygen.

The Civil Rights movement in the U.S. in the 1960's is remembered for it's non-violent nature. But let's not forget that a lot of the demand for social change in that era was accompanied by violence.

Yet, somehow all of that violence is not on many radars, but occasional mass murders with guns turns people into angry champions of public health and safety from violence.

Honestly, when I hear "violence" the gun violence of today is not one of the first things to come to my mind. The removal of Native Americans--something that is centuries old, not a recent phenomenon--is the most obvious example of violence to me as a lifelong resident of the U.S. Yet, that never seems to make an appearance in any discussion of violence.

Do we really detest violence?

Or is it just guns that people care about?

How many of those guns in circulation that we keep hearing about are ever actually used to kill people?

I'm not a gun rights-2nd Amendment-NRA person, by the way. I have never held a gun, let alone owned one. I have never even voted for a Republican--every vote I have ever cast has been for a Democrat. I have been a victim of crime committed with a gun, though. I had to testify in court as a witness for the state. Anyway, no pro-gun bias here.

fishfry

Because nobody notices the extreme daily violence of US foreign policy. That's by design. During the Vietnam war there were actual journalists on site. Once the American people got a good look at the carnage, they lost interest. The government learned their lesson and now "journalists" in quotes are embedded and the news is heavily censored. The most violent nation in the world abroad has violence at home. Go figure.

Sir2u

How many of those guns in circulation that we keep hearing about are ever actually used to kill people? — WISDOMfromPO-MO

Since there are supposed to be millions of guns in the USA and only a few thousand gun deaths and counting that quite a few of those deaths were probably caused by the same gun being used multiple times I would calculate a small percentage of the guns were involved. But that is only my guess.

BC

↪WISDOMfromPO-MO

As a species, human beings are inherently violent, so it is only natural for us to behave violently. We can, however, control our violent tendencies both individually, and collectively. "Control" doesn't mean "eliminate". It means manage, focus, reduce, or enlarge the range of our violent behaviors.

Violence has swarmed out of Asia, the Middle East, and Europe. If violence was contained within Africa and the Western Hemisphere, it was because the internal distances and geographical barriers were too great. Violence is human, not European, not African, not Amerindian, not Asian.

Are guns the problem? Of course they are. They are excellent devices for killing animals -- including homo sapiens. Put a gun within reach of every citizen and you will have excess deaths owing to gun violence. If poisons and explosives were as easy to get as guns, then we would have high rates of excess death from those causes, and would that not be lovely.

According to Stephen Pinker, in his frequently referenced work, The Better Angels of Our Nature, we used to be MORE violent in the late stone age than we are not. Creating the cultural institutions of centralized government reduced violence significantly.

We are rational, intelligent, reflective beings -- when we want to be, yet we are perfectly capable of going berserk, as a strategy, and laying waste to targets.

BC

this creation called civilization — WISDOMfromPO-MO

Well informed civilized people keep their expectations for civilization suitable low. Anyone working with the public (in the wild) know that that the people are revolting a good share of the time.

America might seem more violent than anybody else, but remember North America was colonized by Europeans, who, as it happens, have had a rather bloody history, locally and around the world. Are Americans violent? Sure we are -- just like everybody else. We have given ourselves far more convenient, cost-effective means to actually carry out our violent urges than most other people have.

WISDOMfromPO-MO

Are guns the problem? Of course they are. — Bitter Crank

According to what I read the other night, the rate of gun-related deaths in the U.S. has declined significantly over the past 20 years.

There has been a recent upsurge, but the overall rate is still much lower than 20 years ago, I read.

Wayfarer

↪WISDOMfromPO-MO

not gun related deaths, the murder rate. But mass shootings (4 or more killed or wounded) are at an all time high. More than 377 so far this year.

WISDOMfromPO-MO

America might seem more violent than anybody else, but remember North America was colonized by Europeans, who, as it happens, have had a rather bloody history, locally and around the world. Are Americans violent? Sure we are -- just like everybody else. We have given ourselves far more convenient, cost-effective means to actually carry out our violent urges than most other people have. — Bitter Crank

I think that you are applying to me what other people have said.

I never said anything about how violent the U.S. is compared to other places.

I asked why it takes mass murder with guns to get people angry about violence and condemning violence when violence is abundant in many other forms.

I gave the global violence that can be attributed to the West as an example of those other forms of violence.

And some of the time when I have worked in call centers I have taken calls from non-Americans. They were verbally abusive as well, so it is not anything unique to the U.S.

WISDOMfromPO-MO

"Yet the current rate of firearm violence is still far lower than in 1993, when the rate was 6.21 such deaths per 100,000 people, compared with 3.4 in 2016. The high rate in the early 1990s was linked to a variety of conditions, most notably the emergence of a large and violent market for crack cocaine. It’s too soon to determine the causes of recent increases in gun violence or whether the upward trend will continue." -- Five myths about gun violence

Again, the rate of gun-related deaths has declined overall in the last 20 years.

BC

I think that you are applying to me what other people have said. — WISDOMfromPO-MO

Could be. Sorry, sorry about that.

I asked why it takes mass murder with guns to get people angry about violence and condemning violence when violence is abundant in many other forms. — WISDOMfromPO-MO

True enough, violence appears in a variety of forms--some of it non-fatal but thoroughly demoralizing, and some of it resulting in corpses.

One reason for people's reaction is that mass murders are out of the ordinary. People get shot and killed practically every day in Chicago; a gun death or two (or three) is not out of the ordinary. One day this year 12 people were killed in Chicago -- just not all at the same place. Again, pretty bad but within the range of "normal". 26 people getting killed in church, and another dozen being severely injured is abnormal.

Look, I don't like it -- that people consider one or two killings a day normal, and I don't like it when jack-in-the-box dingbats living in the White House come out with "Guns are not the problem." or worse, "Now is not the time to politicize the issue."

As for the pervasive corrosiveness of authoritarianism, it's like the air people breath. It just isn't noticeable as an unnatural phenomenon.

fishfry

One reason for people's reaction is that mass murders are out of the ordinary. — Bitter Crank

I have a fantasy. We know that 100 Americans a day die in automobile accidents. Actually it's 110, now that the new annual number is 40k. Lot of dead people, more than guns, a lot more than terrorism, a lot more than horrific public mass murders. The only difference is that these 110 per day are diffuse. They die just as senselessly and just as horribly as anybody at that church. But the deaths happen one at a time all over the country, and each death only makes the local news. Auto deaths are too commonplace and there's no political angle to sell.

My fantasy is that one day -- tomorrow, say -- we rent out a huge warehouse somewhere. In that warehouse we lay out the bodies of all 110 victims of tomorrows road carnage. We bring in the hundreds or thousands more who are only injured in car wrecks. We bring in all the twisted and burnt metal, all the contents of the cars strewn across the highway, all the blood spilled. We bring in all the friends, relatives, co-workers devastated by the sudden loss of each deceased. The orphaned kids, the parents, everyone. Bring 'em all in, have a huge collective weep.

Then we bring in the media. We let them take pictures, talk to the grieving friends and loved ones and the survivors who lost limbs but didn't die. We put all this on the evening news. Cable hosts get outraged, scream about how awful it all is.

Then we remind everyone that this scene is repeated every single day of the year. A new 110 along with survivors, wreckage, anguished friends and loved ones.

It would change people's perspective on things. They'd see what was previously unseen. They'd probably try to ban driving. And for sure they'd ban drunk driving, the cause of most of the damage. No more slaps on the wrist and picking up trash along the freeway on weekends. Hard time, 30 days first drunk driving arrest and a year for the second, no excuses.

You'd save more lives that way than you ever will banning bump stocks. Or Muslims, for that matter. Lot of nonsense from both the left and the right, depending on who the killer is. My own money's on the drunks. They're out there killing people. Speaking as a driver who doesn't drink I would like them to stop doing that. I would like something done about the drunk and inattentive drivers. I'd like to see that more than I'd like to see guns or Muslims banned. But where's the politician who's going to go after the booze industry or get people to stop texting?

WISDOMfromPO-MO

I left out violence against ecosystems.

Maybe an accounting of all violence past and present would show that the Industrial Revolution has been the most violent single event ever and the source of the most continued violence.

WISDOMfromPO-MO

"Diseases caused by pollution were responsible in 2015 for an estimated 9 million premature deaths -- 16% of all deaths worldwide -- three times more deaths than AIDS, tuberculosis, and malaria combined; and fifteen times more than all wars and other forms of violence. It kills more people than smoking, hunger and natural disasters. In some countries, it accounts for one in four deaths." (emphasis mine)

Source: Pollution responsible for 16 percent of early deaths globally

Why does it take mass murder with guns for people to notice and condemn violence?

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