Returning to the TTC, 25. And another translation. Why this one, out of the many? Are you working your way through the terebess list? https://terebess.hu/english/tao/_index.html
Or is it one that 'works' for you, or prefer, in some way? — Amity

All of the translations deserve attention. The reason why the Bahm translation stands out to me in particular, is because it's arguably the least orthodox one. It's the most "European-ish" or "Western-ish", and think that's an interesting lens or perspective from which to read the Tao Te Ching. I prefer the Gia-Fu Feng & Jane English translation, of course. And that's the one that I'm obsessed with. But that's a character flaw that I have, admittedly. The other translations should be taken into account, of course, despite my predilection.

The voice seems authoritative, explanatory, yet not dogmatic. It goes further in describing the Tao as 'ultimate reality'. — Amity

On the topic of the ultimate (or ultimates, plural), it's useful to consider the SEP entry on God and other ultimates, because it compares the concept of Tao to the concept of Brahman and the concept of God. From the entry:

What it takes to be ultimate is to be the most fundamentally real, valuable or fulfilling among all that there is or could be. Historically, philosophy of religion in the West has taken God to be ultimate. Over the past century, the field has become increasingly aware that ultimacy is grasped under different concepts in the world’s religions, philosophies and quasi-religious philosophies—so not only as “God” but also as, e.g., “Brahman”, “the Dao”, and more. Moreover, people have thought to conceptualize each of these ultimates in numerous ways across cultures and times, so there are many models of Brahman, many models of God, many models of the Dao, and more; perhaps there is even a model of what is ultimate for each person who has thought hard about it. This entry presents a framework for understanding this vast landscape of models of God and other ultimates and then surveys some of its major sights. Familiarity with this landscape can clarify the long journey to deciding whether there is anything ultimate, among other benefits. — Jeanine Diller

There is an emphasis on the 'intelligent man'. What does he mean by this? Why the emphasis on 'intelligent'? Not all men are. Unless, it simply means having an ability to think. It's unfortunate that Bahm keeps to the word 'man' rather than 'human' or 'human beings' (as per Jane English update). Then again, a man of his time. Edit: On a re-read, I note he also used the word 'person'. — Amity

The "intelligent man" is what Gia-Fu Feng & Jane English call "the king", and what some other translations simply call "man". In that sense, we should also speak of the intelligent woman, the Queen, and simply woman. "Intelligent person" and "intelligent human being" are even better expressions, not because they're more politically correct, but rather because they get to the heart of the matter in a more efficient way. That still leaves the question regarding politics: should we understand the terms "king" and "queen" politically? Or do intelligent people aspire to become kings and queens of their own lives? Kings and queens ruling over their own emotions and impulses? Kings and queens that keep their passions in control and in check, instead of surrendering themselves to such passions? These are difficult questions to answer.

I've spoken to engineers about the Tao Te Ching before. They are far more level-headed than mathematicians and physicists on this topic, and that is the reason why I'm fascinated by how someone like @T Clark approaches this topic. Because an engineer, etymologically, is someone who specializes in engines (and structures, and machines). An engine is a human construct, it's a machine in some sense. It's a work of artifice, not nature. And that is why I think that the Tao is not identical to Nature. The Tao is a work of artifice, it is not Nature itself. The Way itself, the Path itself, is the Artifice that points to, refers to, or emerges from, Nature itself. We should note that the word "Nature" derives from the Roman Latin Natura, which is more or less equivalent to the ancient Greek word Physis. In this sense physics is "the study of nature". But the laws of physics also apply to machines, such as engines. The problem is that there is a lot of nonsense in physics today, as well as in mathematics. Even professional, prominent physicist, say nonsensical things when they say that "the observer creates quantum reality" or whatnot. Mathematicians say nonsense when they say that mathematics itself is some sort of Platonic ultimate (Max Tegmark holds this opinion, for example). Engineers are far more rational than physicists and mathematicians in that sense.

So, are machines natural? Are engines natural? Is my computer natural? They're physical things, aren't they? They are subjected to the same physical laws that trees and stones are subjected to, aren't they? But I think it makes sense to trace a distinction between Nature and Artifice, or between Nature and Culture (or Nature and Tao, if you will), even though everything is physical. Which is why I don't think that the Latin natura is identical to the Greek physis.

As for the Ultimate, in my personal philosophy, it is identical to Reality itself, not to Nature, nor to Tao.

Does that make sense?

As for the Ultimate, in my personal philosophy, it is identical to Reality itself, not to Nature, nor to Tao.

Does that make sense? — Arcane Sandwich

Yes, if one considers the message that comes through, regardless of the implementation that is only the messenger, kind of analogous to music as the message, whether from a live band or a studio recording.

As for the Ultimate — Arcane Sandwich

On the Eternal Tao and Its Manifestations

The Foundation

Let us realize that what is Eternal
Stands as the bedrock of all that appears,
The permanent presence beneath every change,
Unchanging through all of time’s gathering years.

What truly exists cannot fade or dissolve,
Cannot be created or suffer decay;
The Eternal simply and perfectly Is,
While temporary forms drift like clouds away.

The Manifestation

Through endless transmutation’s flowing dance,
The Eternal dons ten thousand changing forms,
Like one great ocean lifting countless waves,
Or single sky spawning infinite storms.

Each temporal thing that rises from its depths
Bears witness to that which forever stays,
A momentary expression of the whole,
A fleeting actor in eternal plays.

The Paradox

How strange that what seems most solid and real—
The mountains, the stars, our own flesh and bone—
Are but the ripples on timeless seas,
While the unchanging source remains unknown.

Yet in each mote of cosmic dust there dwells
The fullness of that which can never die,
As every drop contains the entire sea,
And each moment holds eternity’s sky.

The Understanding

The wise ones tell us: look beneath the flux
Of birth and death, of pleasure and of pain,
To find that which has never come or gone,
The deathless presence that does e’er remain.

For though all forms must shift and change and flow,
Their essence rests in that which cannot move,
The changeless witness to all changing things,
The ground of being that all forms must prove.

The Perspective

From highest heaven to the deepest seas,
From quantum foam to galactic expanse,
All manifestation’s endless pageantry
Emerges from the Eternal’s timeless dance.

What seems to perish never truly dies,
What seems to birth was never truly born;
Forms merely shift like waves upon the deep,
While that which Is continues without morn.

The Recognition

To know this truth is not to turn away
From life’s rich play of shadow and of light,
But to perceive within each passing show
The presence of the Infinite’s delight.

For in the dance of atom and of star,
Of thought and feeling, birth and final breath,
We glimpse the face of that which always Is,
Beyond all bounds of life and time and death.

The Living

Thus may we walk through time’s swift-flowing stream,
Aware of both the wave and water’s truth:
The forms that pass, the presence that remains,
The aged wisdom and eternal youth.

Each moment precious in its swift-winged flight,
Yet held within that which can never fade;
Each change a window to unchanging light,
Each temporal thing of timeless essence made.

The Synthesis

Let us then cherish every passing day,
While resting in the truth that cannot pass;
Dance with the waves while knowing we are sea,
Be both the changing leaves and changeless mass.

For this is wisdom’s deepest, sweetest song:
That in the heart of all that seems to flee,
There dwells that which has never left its place—
The one still point of all eternity.

The Resolution

The Eternal remains forever what it is,
Though dressed in time’s kaleidoscopic show;
The permanent wears impermanence like robes,
Through which its timeless radiance may flow.

And we who walk in bodies made of time
Carry within the spark of timeless fire,
Both wave and ocean, both the dance and still,
Both changing form and changeless heart’s desire.

For this is wisdom’s deepest, sweetest song — PoeticUniverse

Bin Laden — Arcane Sandwich

What the heck is Bin Laden doing here in the Tao?

Abbottabad
About a Bad

The specter fled to Abottabad,
Having done a whole lotta bad,
His courier’s bin laden with what OBL had,
It being their way or no way—how sad..

No phone, internet, or even any trash
Was the giveaway to what the mansion hath,
And even in the nearby counter-terrorism’s path,
The Jihad of Evil courting the goodly wrath.

SEALs swept into the heart of the storm
Coptering into the hilltop’s guarding swarm,
In a foreign land, the tempest ID’d by the CIA,
And so the leader and his men live no more today.

A shot to the head and he was dead,
And to evil the end, as to all in his stead,
Whether clerics or just plain terror led.

The backup Chinook replaced the fallen stealth,
Perhaps too new of a device to sustain its health.

Osama rules nothing now, as he’s not to be,
Rotting at the bottom of the Arabian sea.


NAPOLEON

I wrote to the banished Napoleon,
Asking if all was well, and he replied,

No, sir.
PS: Liveable was I ere I saw Elba, evil’s prison.

(I extended the palindrome;
However, there is one cheat…)

What the heck is Bin Laden doing here in the Tao? — PoeticUniverse

Looks like not everything is rose-tinted in the world of the Tao, innit.