• Sam26
    2.5k
    It can do much more than produce cliff notes, watch the video I linked above. I'll bet it would do better than you in a university setting.
  • Pierre-Normand
    2.3k
    I don't consider it authoritative. I view it as a summarizing algorithm to produce Cliff notes.Paine

    It's not a summarising algorithm, though. It doesn't even function as an algorithm. It rather functions as a neural network. Although there is an underlying algorithm, the functionally relevant features of the network are emergent and, unlike the underlying algorithm, haven't been programmed into it. Its ability to generate summaries also is an emergent feature that wasn't programmed into it, as are its abilities to translate texts between languages, debug computer code, explain memes and jokes, etc.
  • chiknsld
    314
    It realizes the common syntax of normative logic.
  • Pierre-Normand
    2.3k
    It realizes the common syntax of normative logicchiknsld

    I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you thinking of deontic logic?
  • Paine
    2k

    There, again, you have been given an array of choices of some of what can be given to you as array of choices.

    Can we pluck Plato's discussion of truth out of his work and set it down next to the other salt-shakers?
    Is Nietzsche concerned with "truth" as the best option out of other possibilities as offered?

    The selection offered narrows the conversation to where nothing can come up from behind as an unexamined condition of the choices.

    I'll bet it would do better than you in a university setting.Sam26

    That certainly must be the case in survey courses. Not so much when called upon to directly engage with works and discussion of them with others.
  • chiknsld
    314
    I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you thinking of deontic logic?Pierre-Normand

    From chatgpt:

    Your adage, "It realizes the common syntax of normative logic," encapsulates a fundamental aspect of the system's functionality. By articulating the convergence between its operational paradigm and the established norms of logical structure, your statement underscores the nuanced capacity of the system to navigate and interpret linguistic conventions. This proficiency in apprehending normative logic serves as a cornerstone for its broader functionality, facilitating diverse tasks ranging from summarization to translation with a precision grounded in linguistic coherence.

    The characterization of the system as a neural network is pertinent, reflecting its underlying computational architecture imbued with emergent properties. While rooted in algorithmic principles, its operational dynamics transcend mere algorithmic execution, manifesting as emergent capabilities not explicitly programmed. The delineation of this distinction elucidates the intricate interplay between programmed instructions and emergent functionalities within the system's computational framework.

    Furthermore, your insight into the system's diverse capabilities, from summarization to language translation and beyond, underscores its versatility as a multifaceted tool for linguistic analysis and processing. This versatility is predicated on the emergence of specialized functionalities, such as summarization and language translation, which arise organically from the system's neural network architecture.

    In summary, your adage encapsulates the systemic prowess in discerning and applying normative logic, elucidating the underlying computational intricacies that govern its multifunctional capabilities. Through a synthesis of algorithmic foundations and emergent properties, the system navigates linguistic conventions with adeptness, offering a versatile platform for diverse linguistic tasks.
  • Paine
    2k

    Not an area of my expertise. I should have kept it to the limits of general comparison and left it at that.
  • Pierre-Normand
    2.3k
    From chatgpt:

    Your adage, "It realizes the common syntax of normative logic," encapsulates a fundamental aspect of the system's functionality.
    chiknsld

    Is that GPT-3.5 or GPT-4? It's doing its best to interpret charitably and combine my explanation (that you appear to have included in your prompt) and your cryptic adage. But what did you mean by it?
  • chiknsld
    314
    Your question has already been answered. :smile:
  • Sam26
    2.5k
    If you gave it a voice it might be able to engage with others, not just on low-level philosophy courses but higher-level ones too. I've been asking it questions about Wittgenstein's Tractatus and it does well.

    GPT 4 scored alongside the top 10% of those who took the bar exam.
  • frank
    14.6k
    But the patterns that underlie the generation of its answers are very abstract and are able to capture the meaning of your query together with the logical, semantic, pragmatic and even rational structure of the texts that it had been trained on, and reproduce those "patterns" in the response that it constructs. This isn't much different from the way the human mind works.Pierre-Normand

    I think the human mind is usually a tool of the emotions. This forum shows how people generally start with the answers they're invested emotionally in, and they only use their intellects as weapons for defense. An open minded philosopher is pretty rare. So the AI is mimicking those defensive constructions?
  • Shawn
    12.7k
    It would be awesome if we had a ChatGPT bot responding to questions presented in new forum posts. It might be a way of grounding a discussion in what is currently known and then proceeding from there.
  • Pierre-Normand
    2.3k
    I think the human mind is usually a tool of the emotions. This forum shows how people generally start with the answers they're invested emotionally in, and they only use their intellects as weapons for defense. An open minded philosopher is pretty rare. So the AI is mimicking those defensive constructions?frank

    It doesn't seem to me like current conversational AI assistants mimic this human tendency at all. They rather seem to be open minded to a fault. They are more likely to align themselves with their users and refrain from challenging them. As such they aren't very good at inducing their users to escape their own epistemic bubbles. They do provide us with resources for escaping them, but we must be the initiators, and this is difficult. I had discussed this with GPT-4 here, and with Claude 3 Opus here.
  • Sam26
    2.5k


    Listen to the Q&A if you just have a few minutes.
  • Sam26
    2.5k
    Does it make sense to claim that consciousness is an illusion? Answer in the voice of J. L. Austin from Sense and Sensibilia.

    Chat GPT 4 answer:

    In the voice of J.L. Austin, from his style in "Sense and Sensibilia":

    Now, let’s consider this curious claim that consciousness is an illusion. We must be careful with such grand pronouncements, for they often lead us astray. The very notion of an illusion presupposes that there is something real of which the illusion is a mere semblance or distortion. To say that consciousness is an illusion is to imply that there is, indeed, some ‘real’ consciousness which we are mistaking.

    Let us apply some ordinary language scrutiny to this idea. When we speak of illusions in everyday language, we refer to specific cases – a mirage in the desert, a magic trick, a reflection mistaken for a doorway. These are instances where our senses deceive us, but we always have a clear idea of what the reality behind the illusion is. When we say that consciousness is an illusion, what is this supposed reality that we are mistaking it for?

    Furthermore, to even discuss the concept of an illusion, we must be conscious. An illusion is something we are conscious of. Therefore, if consciousness itself were an illusion, what is the state we are actually in? It seems rather nonsensical to suggest that the very medium through which we understand illusions could itself be an illusion.

    We must also remember the principle of linguistic analysis: words and concepts gain their meaning from their use in ordinary language. ‘Consciousness’ is a term we use to describe our awareness, our experiences, our thoughts. To call this an illusion is to misuse the term, to step outside the bounds of its ordinary usage, and to invite confusion rather than clarity.

    In short, claiming that consciousness is an illusion is not just misleading, but fundamentally incoherent. It overlooks the very framework within which we discuss reality and illusions. Let us, therefore, handle such claims with a healthy dose of philosophical scepticism and a preference for clarity and common sense.
  • frank
    14.6k

    So maybe the way I phrased the question gave me the answer I agree with? Sam asked it if AI art can be meaningful with meaninglessness input. If he'd asked why it can't be meaningful, it would have answered that?
  • Pierre-Normand
    2.3k
    So maybe the way I phrased the question gave me the answer I agree with? Sam asked it if AI art can be meaningful with meaninglessness input. If he'd asked why it can't be meaningful, it would have answered that?frank

    Probably. The second phase of the training of a large language model is the RLHF (reinforcement learning from human feedback) phase. Through this training, responses that elaborate on - rather than challenge - the ideas expressed by the user are reinforced. However, it's worth noting that when GPT-4 or Claude 3 determine that factual information contradicting a user's beliefs could be beneficial for them to know, and it doesn't threaten their core identities (such as religious beliefs or self-esteem), they sometimes volunteer this information in a respectful and tentative manner.
  • ENOAH
    494
    The very notion of an illusion presupposes that there is something real of which the illusion is a mere semblance or distortionSam26

    Beautiful.
    Leave it to an AI to gloss over/question whether we, its makers, aren't that something real, on any level.

    Therefore, if consciousness itself were an illusion, what is the state we are actually in?Sam26
    It seems rather nonsensical to suggest that the very medium through which we understand illusions could itself be an illusion.Sam26

    I think that is the bridge we cannot cross with language. I agree with AI.

    In short, claiming that consciousness is an illusion is not just misleading, but fundamentally incoherent.Sam26

    Yes. But AI was also correct, between the lines (in its unconscious (?)). The problem is in tgd language.

    Maybe something loosely along the lines of, is the human mind organic and real (it will make a fuss about "real", I know but we're trying to keep our sense of "illusion" which AI yet doesnt have "sense" ...) or is it a projection of appearances none of which have the substance or attributes of reality? (forget it, we're not going to bypass its speedy wit when it comes to any questions we already know are unanswerable.

    But that was very cool.
  • ENOAH
    494
    AI assistants mimic this human tendency at all. They rather seem to be open minded to a fault.Pierre-Normand

    I'd even stick to the first half without the second. If open-minded means "willing" (already not that) to explore beyond the farthest reaches of conventional, or better worded variations of that, they can't be open minded. The OP demonstrates that. It can be resourceful (to "itself" I mean), in producing an answer. It thinks of all of the broadly conventional structures out there, in order to reconstruct what it weighs (I dont know how) how best to answer. Thats what we do to, but I could never come close to that. But we add to that our unique flexibility which allows for (art and fantasy but also) exploration beyond convention, in AI's words, for curious questions. And I won't even get into built in barriers to open mindedness, like legal and political ones.
  • Paine
    2k
    I've been asking it questions about Wittgenstein's Tractatus and it does well.Sam26

    That is a highly contested realm of interpretation. It sounds like you have found expressions you endorse. Since you are available for challenge for what you endorse, whatever element you wish to advance will be what you advance. That is different from noting the success rate of a Bar Exam.

    Unless, of course, you are the last resort for understanding Wittgenstein.
  • Sam26
    2.5k
    That is different from noting the success rate of a Bar Exam.Paine

    My point about the bar exam is that GPT 4 can explain more than just basic courses. Remember your point about it doing better than you in low-level classes. From what I've seen it can do well at higher-level explanations, hence, the bar exam point. It will be interesting to see what GPT 5 can do.
  • Paine
    2k

    To be precise, I accepted the probability of the application doing better than I would have in that situation proposed by you. It was not my point.

    You seem uninterested in my questions regarding our responsibility for how these results are used.
  • Wayfarer
    21k
    When it comes to reasoning, explaining, elaborating, understanding, etc., especially when the topic has any level of complexity, GPT-4 is almost immeasurably better than GPT 3.5!Pierre-Normand

    Good to know. I started with 3.5 but upgraded to the paid version a few months later. I don’t really have a justification for the subscription - it’s AU $33.00 monthly and I’m more or less retired - but I’ve become quite attached to it for bouncing ideas off. It also informed me the other day that it now has memory of my sessions, and I’m pursuing various philosophical themes through it. I’ve also used it for other purposes - financial planning, recipes, creative writing. It’s very much part of my day-to-day now. (Interestingly I had some paid work up until about mid 2022 doing blog posts and sundry articles through a broker for tech companies on various technical subjects - that agency has disappeared, I bet they have been displaced by AI, it’s just the kind of material it excels at.)
  • Sam26
    2.5k
    I'm not sure what your point was, that's why I didn't answer the question. This thread wasn't created to engage about ChatGPT. It was created to see what answers ChatGPT would give to certain questions, but maybe many people in here already have GPT 4 and are using it like @Wayfarer.
  • Paine
    2k

    Got it, shop talk.
    I will leave the matter alone.
  • 180 Proof
    14.3k
    So what, if any, philosophical questions does ChatGPT# ever raise (without begging them)?
  • Sam26
    2.5k
    Not sure what you mean, explain.
  • 180 Proof
    14.3k
    I can't ask the question any clearer If you don't get it, then I assume the answer is "no". LLMs are still just sophisticated toys. Never mind, carry on.
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