How bad would death be if a positive afterlife was proven to exist?

Captain Homicide

The existence of an eternal afterlife is proven definitively. It’s a place of unimaginable bliss, fulfillment, wonder etc and is governed by a generic, deistic, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and omnibenevolent God. Every person that dies goes to this afterlife regardless of their virtue or immorality while alive. There is no Hell, Purgatory or anything like it. As soon as you die you instantly enter this afterlife without issue. You’ll permanently retain your memories, personality and everything else that makes you “you” though you can alter and enhance it as you see fit. In this afterlife you can do basically anything you want other than interfere with other people’s afterlives against their will or possess the attributes of God. You can spend time with dead loved ones and other people, indulge in hedonism, uncover the secrets of the universe, create and explore worlds of your own creation etc.

In this scenario would death in the living world still be bad and something to avoid like it is now where as far as we know your consciousness ceases to exist when your mortal body expires?

How would living people on Earth see death and killing from this point on?

Andrew4Handel

↪Captain Homicide

I think the suffering and fear involved in dying is bad.

If the death process was truly painless you would think believers would commit suicide to reach heaven as soon as possible. I think the concept of heaven raises the issue of what we are here now for.

I think the possibility of a better afterlife may make dying easier as a process.

Some people (pro assisted suicide people) already believe having a painless premature death is preferrable then any kind of suffering prior to dying. I also don't see value in suffering.

I think dying with no after life or heaven is better than dying and things being worst which people who belive in hell hold.

To me death does raise questions about the value and meaning of life.

Vera Mont

How would living people on Earth see death and killing from this point on? — Captain Homicide

They might be more reluctant to kill, knowing that their victim would soon be their neighbour. It's difficult to imagine a heaven with all those enemies in it together.
But dying would become simply another medical procedure, like having one's appendix removed: not an end, but a step along a single, continuous life.

L'éléphant

In this scenario would death in the living world still be bad and something to avoid like it is now where as far as we know your consciousness ceases to exist when your mortal body expires? — Captain Homicide

It would no longer be called "death" but a passing to another realm.

This is how in the ancient times, when human sacrifice was practiced, people did not think of being murdered for the sake of the deity as bad. It was an honor to be bludgeoned at the back of the head because the deity would be pleased.

Outlander

In this scenario would death in the living world still be bad and something to avoid like it is now where as far as we know your consciousness ceases to exist when your mortal body expires?

How would living people on Earth see death and killing from this point on? — Captain Homicide

It depends. Boredom can be its own Hell. What if you can never come back? It's all subjective. One man's trash is another man's treasure. The hedonic treadmill. What is once shocking or amazing the first time around becomes boring and vacuous when repeated. The grass is indeed always greener. Sometimes it really is "better the devil you know" and work can indeed set a man free.

A simple anecdote, posted for purely philosophical reasons:

Reveal

I would definitely consider giving the full episode a watch if you're that curious on the topic.

TheMadMan

↪Captain Homicide

That heaven would be hell. Eternal torture. Meaningless. Eternal void would be preferable.

"Shower on him every blessing, drown him in a sea of happiness, give him economic prosperity such that he should have nothing else to do but sleep, eat cakes, and busy himself with the continuation of the species, and even then, out of sheer ingratitude, sheer spite, man would play you some nasty trick."

Fooloso4

or possess the attributes of God. — Captain Homicide

Being immortal they would possess that attribute of God.

How would living people on Earth see death and killing from this point on? — Captain Homicide

We have abundant test cases, those who believe in a heaven much as you describe it.

Captain Homicide

Being immortal they would possess that attribute of God. — Fooloso4

I meant they can’t be omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient etc.

Benj96

In this scenario would death in the living world still be bad and something to avoid like it is now where as far as we know your consciousness ceases to exist when your mortal body expires? — Captain Homicide

Well if paradise is guarenteed then I don't see why death would be feared.

However, as suffering and the lessons learned from such can only be experienced while living in this case, I also wouldnt rush dying nor try to bring it forward (suicide/bad health behavior). I would like to continue living out the potential of my earthly life for as long as I can, even if some suffering is involved.

What your portraying is a blissful afterlife where nothing we do in real life matters. We can be hitler and still enter and enjoy this afterlife paradise. But as it has strict rules about disrupting others joy, I gather that a hitler personality would be well controlled.

In this case. Live until you die, and then paradise awaits. What more could one want?

Ciceronianus

How would living people on Earth see death and killing from this point on? — Captain Homicide

Well, it may cause a problem or two for antinatalists. Would it still be wrong to procreate in all cases if, ultimately, eternal bliss will result? You couldn't be eternally blissful unless you lived for a time in this veil of tears, this house of horrors. Perhaps there'd be a moral obligation to breed like rabbits, so more and more people would die!

T Clark

As an aside, there was a movie that took up this issue - The Discovery - with Robert Redford and Jason Segal. In it, a scientist proves there is an afterlife, which leads to a lot of suicides. I haven't watched it. It is on Netflix.

Fooloso4

↪Captain Homicide

Understood, but to give some indication of the issue of gods and immortality:

And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

(Genesis 3:22)

It is, according to this view, immortality that separates men from gods. As Nietzsche asks somewhere, are we up to the task? The same question is posed in the Genesis story, and is answered by blocking access to the tree of life, to immortality. In secular terms, it is the question of being human and finitude.

The related question of power is also addressed in Genesis. In response to the building of the Tower of Babel God says:

The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

(11:6 Emphasis added)

What would be possible for human beings working together for eternity? This is what is in play with Descartes program for the infinite perfectibility of man. For Francis Bacon too there is the project of endless progress. Both take seriously the idea of a universal language, that is, to overcome God's will and renew man's quest to do whatever they will to do.

In other words, in your heaven man would come closer and closer to closing the gap between God and man.

Fooloso4

↪T Clark

This was a problem with early Christianity. In order to curtail the practice it was declared that suicide would prevent you from getting into heaven.

ssu

The existence of an eternal afterlife is proven definitively. It’s a place of unimaginable bliss, fulfillment, wonder etc and is governed by a generic, deistic, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and omnibenevolent God. Every person that dies goes to this afterlife regardless of their virtue or immorality while alive. — Captain Homicide

Just a question: how would eternal life would be so nice? I guess the first few billion years could be nice, but then?

(Oh right, you said it would be unimaginable)

Tom Storm

How would living people on Earth see death and killing from this point on? — Captain Homicide

The problem with afterlife speculations is that we fill them with what we are like here on earth. How do we know what being in the afterlife for eternity is like? Will it be cafes and side walks and Sunday dinners with Grandma? Will we slip into an afterlife with all the sensibilities (boredom thresholds, jealousies and preferences) we had in life? Will there be sex in the afterlife, or shopping, or walks to the river? I suspect our imagination about this subject needs energizing. If the afterlife is just us, as we are now, living for forever, then it's bound to be stultifying.

Art48

“Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon.”
― Susan Ertz :lol:

Captain Homicide

How do we know what being in the afterlife for eternity is like? — Tom Storm

True but in this scenario we explicitly know what the afterlife is like.

Tom Storm

↪Captain Homicide

:up:

How bad would death be if a positive afterlife was proven to exist?

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