• Mikie

    The republicans are no longer a political party. Here I agree with Chomsky.

    But what they’ve left behind is hardly admirable— the “intellectual” republicans are still neoliberals through and through. All their talk of small government always was a pretext for vicious class warfare and their complete obedience to corporate power. Even more savage than the Wall Street democrats, who at least throw a few crumbs to the 80-90% of the population struggling to keep up once in a while, and believe in things like climate change.

    Unfortunately there’s no choice anymore for anyone thinking rationally about the world. The Democratic Party is currently the place to push for changes. We’ve seen that in the old bones of Biden, who doesn’t have the foggiest idea of what’s going on, but who has been far more progressive than Obama or Clinton, largely due to activist pressures and the strength of the Sanders campaign in ‘16 and especially ‘20. His advisors know that many voting blocks simply won’t accept the policies of his predecessors whole hog.

    But that’s national stuff, where we don’t have much impact other than in how we vote. What matters more isn’t really any party, but what we do locally and how we organize— i.e., how we increase our power. There’s a great book on this called Politics is For Power, by Eitan Hirsch. I think this is where our focus should be; the choice for who to vote for in ‘24, in contrast, should take 5 minutes of brain power.
  • 180 Proof
    I regard him as a philosopher. He is a practioner of philosophy – Donald Trump; and he is a philosopher of fuckyouism. — Steve Schmidt, former GOP senior campaign advisor, from discussion with former Senator Al Franken (D-MN), podcast 7 May 2023
  • jorndoe
    , Robert Francis Kennedy Junior is an idiot with a cause, a category or two (or three) below his uncle.
    What's up with these mad
    elected officials like the Frump, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, Wendy Rogers, Ted Cruz, ...Jan 27, 2023
    in the US anyway?
    Bernie at least comes through as a better choice of a representative (of course labeled an evil commie), and I'm sure there must be many others, regardless of party, but then those...people rise and the circus comes to town.


    Wasn't intended to discredit JFK. Englitch being my 2nd language shows.
  • Tzeentch
    What makes him an idiot exactly? It seems he has a lot of guts, throwing down the gauntlet towards big pharma, the military-industrial complex, the CIA, the foreign policy establishment, etc.

    I thought that type of thing would be looked upon more favorably here.
  • Mikie
    Well, as we’ve now learned a million times, we live in bizarro world. Given this, I predict Trump’s chances of becoming president will only increase after this verdict.
  • Wayfarer
    I'd still be willing to bet that Trump will not be the Republican candidate for the Presidency at the next election.
  • Mikie

    Okay boys, how much are we wagering?

    I’m saying he’ll be the nominee, almost certainly. I’ll give you 5:1 odds.
  • 180 Proof
    If Sexual Predator-1 is on the ballot in the fall of 2024 he will be running as an Independent / Third Party candidate and not as the GOP nominee. Why?

    (1) by the end of 2023, the jury in NYS civil lawsuit will find him responsible for over a decade of state tax fraud, putting him and his children on the hook for damages $500million – $1billion and effectively shutting down the Trump Organization, etc by preventing the family from doing business in NYS – SP-1 will be so broke that campaign mega-donors will completely abandon him (as his buddy Rupert Murdoch already has) as well as Russian Oligarchs & the Saudis ...

    (2) by the end of 2023, SP-1 will be indicted for dozens of RICO felonies in Fulton County, Georgia, with a trial set to begin in the summer/fall of 2024 – Senate Minoriry Leader "Moscow Mitch", in order to protect the GOP's slim chances of winning back the US Senate in 2024, will lead GOP senators to begin to openly withdraw their support during the GOP primaries and even openly criticize SP-1 as a serial electoral "LOSER" just as former GOP governor Chris Christie is already doing ...

    (3) lastly, also by the end of 2023, a Federal Grand Jury and the DoJ will indict SP-1 for Seditious Conspiracy & Insurrection, among several other charges, and this will trigger legal challenges in State & Federal courts to remove SP-1 from ballots for president (or any federal office) pursuant to the prohibitions specified in the Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3 of the US Constitution – without GOP big money or his own financing, without the support of GOP senators and live wall-to-wall 24/7 media chatter about legal challenges to officially disqualify Seditionist-1 from any federal office including the presidency, the GOP will abandon him next spring (or sooner) in order to begin saving itself as a viable party for the 2026 midterms abd 2028 general election.

    Out of spite and malignant narcissistic dementia, Seditionist-1 will run as a third party spoiler to punish the GOP for abandoning him siphoning off enough voters to guarantee a Democrat wins the presidency (not Biden) as well as violence by MAGA terrorists leading up to and around the election next fall. And all this in the political context of the collapse of FOX Noise (re: Smartmatic & shareholders' lawsuits plus Tucker Carlson's retaliation) and demise of the right-wing SCOTUS (re: Thomas & wife, et al) as well.


    So I'll be happy to take your money, Mikie. :wink: :up:
  • Mikie

    You’ve laid out a good case. I think some of it is wishful thinking (like how soon there will be a verdict in the NY civil case, and the extent to which donors and senators abandon him), but it’s not out of the realm of possibility.

    I don’t think it matters to his voters, who will double down as they always do, will send him millions of dollars, and will rally around him as a victim of left wing conspirators. They will also destroy any challenger, as we see already with DeSantis, who was supposed to be the shoo in.

    I wouldn’t put it past him to run as an independent or Patriots Party or something like that, but there will be no need: the voters will vote him in as a Republican.

    Also, when you say it won’t be Joe Biden as the nominee — care to bet on that too?

    In both cases I wouldn’t mind losing money.
  • 180 Proof
    The NYS civil trial begins October 2nd; it's a black & white "documents case" that should last no more than two months with a verdict just in time for Xmas or sooner. Loser-1 will not offer a defense just like in the E. Jean Carroll lawsuit and the Trump Organization was convicted of 17 felonies last fall which are also at the heart of the state's civil case. It's wishful thinking at best on your part, Mikie, to believe this lawsuit won't reach a verdict against Loser-1 by the end of this year.

    Rubert Murdoch has already abandoned him. I suspect other far less well-known to the public mega-donors already have as well (which is why Loser-1 has veen grifting so hard since his failed coup attempt).

    Senators Mo Brooks & Mitt Romney released separate statements today declaring Loser-1 is unfit to be president. More to come, Mikie. Let the avalanche begin ...

    Keep in mind, the voters only matter – get a say – once 'the establishment' (mega-donors, party leaders, politicians & pundits) has signed-off on the candidates. Loser-1, while still the front runner today, is hemorraging the establishment support he needs so that his MAGA maniacs can get a chance to vote for him in the primaries. Yeah, I get it, they don't care about his past or pending civil, criminal & financial troubles but, all indications are, the GOP establishment cares about winning / regaining power in Washington DC and Loser-1 looks more and more to them like an obstacle to power. MAGA morons be damned, there aren't enough of them –'without Never Trumpers, suburban GOP women, under 35 years olds and most Independents – for Loser-1 to win a general election. This has been obvious and confirmed since 2018 and confirmed again in 2020 & 2022 (remember the Trumpy "red ripple"?) :smirk:

    Lastly, Desantis is sabotaging himself even as he throws red meat at MAGAts. Also, between getting punk'd by Mickey Mouse and being Loser-1's first and easiest rival to attack, Desantis has offered himself up as a tag-team practice dummy.

    Also, when you say it won’t be Joe Biden as the nominee — care to bet on that too?Mikie
    Like taking candy from a baby. :yum: :up:
  • Mikie
    It's wishful thinking at best on your part, Mikie, to believe this lawsuit won't reach a verdict against Loser-1 by the end of this year.180 Proof

    How? I wish the verdict were today. I'd be very happy to see it. I just have a feeling it'll be protracted, as these things always are.

    More to comr, Mikie. Let the avalanche begin ...180 Proof

    Again, I hope so. But so far every time it looks as though the Republicans are going to get away from Trump -- the apex being the week after January 6th -- he comes back, again and again. And it's obvious why: the voters.

    Keep in mind, the voters only matter – get a say – once 'the establishment' (mega-donors, party leaders, politicians & pundits) has signed-off on the candidates.180 Proof

    But he's beat the establishment, over and over again. The establishment never liked him. They've tolerated him because he still gives tax cuts, deregulates everything, etc. So they put up with almost anything else, as long as he continues to win and give them what they want. Only trouble is, now he's not really winning.

    The voters will apparently follow him into a volcano. Take a look at the polls. It's absurd. You have well over half believing the election was "stolen," simply because he says so.

    Yeah, I get it, they don't care about his past or pending civil, criminal & financial troubles but, all indications are, the GOP establishment cares about winning / regaining power in Washington DC and Loser-1 looks more and more to them like an obstacle to power.180 Proof

    True. But again, they're in quite a dilemma, because the voters still love him and he refuses to pass the baton. He's destroying DeSantis before he's even declared himself a candidate. The establishment doesn't like this, of course, but they're stuck with him. The megadonars simply don't matter if he remains the frontrunner in the polls and has a massive campaign war chest largely funded through small donations from the faithful.

    I'm not saying any of this is good for the Republican party -- it isn't, as was seen in 2020 and 2022. He is bleeding suburbia and independents. But even at that, it was still very close. In a sane world, all of them should have been blowouts. (Including 2018, which people forget was not a blue wave. Dozens won by shockingly few votes.) But the point stands: he's still the frontrunner, and very likely the Republican nominee.

    Like taking candy from a baby. :yum: :up:180 Proof

    All right then, you're on. I bet $10 at 5:1 odds. So $50 to you if you're right in either case. And yes, I'll be VERY happy to pay it, because I hope you're right on both counts.

    [Edit: personal bets are probably looked down on here, so how about this instead: I'll donate $50 to TPF if you're right, and you donate $10 if I'm right. Deal?]
  • jgill
    In uneasy times many look towards an authoritarian figure, in marked contrast to our current president, who is widely seen as only a figurehead, perhaps senile, controlled by a progressive cabal. We drift towards Banana Republic-hood with every video clip of Trump - no matter if they portray him as good or bad. He exudes confidence. :sad:
  • Wayfarer
    Okay boys, how much are we wagering?Mikie

    US$10.00 payable to charity of your choice :up:
  • Wayfarer
    On a side note. Imagine - just imagine - the howls from the Republican Party if George Santos were a Democrat. The outrage! The denunciations! The calls for action! How dare he!

    Hypocrisy, thy name is GOP.

    //although should note some exceptions:

    Other Republicans were less merciful, particularly Mr. Santos’s fellow New Yorkers. Representative Anthony D’Esposito, who represents parts of Nassau County, called Mr. Santos a “serial fraudster” who should “resign from office.” Representative Mike Lawler of the Hudson Valley said Mr. Santos’s conduct had been “embarrassing and disgraceful, and he should resign.” — NYTimes

  • Maw
    My fairly incautious guess, at this point, is thatDeSantis beats Trump in the primary, the latter forms his own independent party sabotaging the Republican vote in the general and Biden cruises into another four terms.Maw

    lol what a dumbass
  • Wayfarer
    Hosting Florida’s governor, Ron DeSantis, in a Twitter audio event on Wednesday to announce his presidential run was supposed to be a triumphant moment for Elon Musk, the owner of Twitter.

    Instead, the event began with more than 20 minutes of technical glitches, hot mic moments and drowned-out and half-said conversations before the livestream abruptly cut out. Minutes later, the livestream was restarted as hundreds of thousands of listeners tried to tune in. Mr. DeSantis had not said a word at that point.

    “That was insane, sorry,” Mr. Musk said.
    NY Times, Elon Musk’s Event With Ron DeSantis Exposes Twitter’s Weaknesses

    These two really deserve each other. :lol:
  • frank
    Or maybe Trump as candidate and DeSantis as vice president.

    I'm so proud.
  • 180 Proof
    :clap: :smirk:

    Putin's Bitch goes on trial in NYC for 34 felonies (so far) on 25 March 2024 during the middle of the GOP primaries. By then the NYS Attorney General and E Jean Carroll (et al) will have bankrupted Loser-1 with punitive damages fines. His "presidential candidacy" is DOA. :lol:


    (Update pending on imminent US Federal indictments for Obstruction of Justice, Espionage, etc.)
  • Wayfarer
    Ron DeSantis - There could be a charming, easy-going lad hibernating under all that permafrost, a Republican Mister Rogers who wants to be your friend and neighbor. But reporters must rely on what they’ve seen and heard during his stint in Congress and over the four years he’s occupied the Florida governorship. He looks and acts like the guy who would confiscate the ball kicked accidentally onto his lawn by kids playing on the sidewalk. Aloof and distant, as if nursing some eternal grudge, DeSantis seems as tightly wound as a fishing reel and a better candidate for residence on a desert island than the White House. — Politico

    Maybe Elon should invite him on a rocket launch next.

    (It’s probably that sense of harbouring a grudge that makes him most like Trump. (He would resent that.))
  • Mikie
    The rapidly ballooning field, combined with Mr. Trump’s seemingly unbreakable core of support, represents a grave threat to Mr. DeSantis, imperiling his ability to consolidate the non-Trump vote, and could mirror the dynamics that powered Mr. Trump’s takeover of the party in 2016.

    It’s a matter of math: Each new entrant threatens to steal a small piece of Mr. DeSantis’s potential coalition — whether it be Mr. Pence with Iowa evangelicals or Mr. Scott with college-educated suburbanites. And these new candidates are unlikely to eat into Mr. Trump’s votes. The former president’s base — more than 30 percent of Republicans — remains strongly devoted to him.

    Ny Times

    I agree with this. It benefits Trump.

    Maybe the RNC takes a page from the DNC playbook and consolidate around one person once it’s clear that the non-Trumps are splitting the votes.
  • Mikie

    If you think his campaign is “DOA,” you’re not paying attention. He’ll be the Republican nominee. I’ll wager money on it.
  • 180 Proof
    Bet! :party:

    Like taking more filthy lucre from a baby! :smirk:

  • ssu
    What Republicans don't understand that now Donald Trump has become what Hillary Clinton was for Republicans, a figure that makes them see red in anger. When the democrats chose Hillary for President, they obviously had forgotten how bad her image had already been when just the first lady.

    With Trump it's worse. Nothing can mobilize the Dems better to vote than Trump being the GOP candidate. Anybody else, and the GOP has a good chance to win. Now other candidates can change and thinking of them can change, but this will stay.

    If Trump becomes the GOP candidate, again the country will look like it's breaking apart.

    A massive dumpster fire then that election. Something that I'm not keenly looking forward to.
  • frank
    A massive dumpster fire then that election. Something that I'm not keenly looking forward to.ssu

    Yes. It's going to suck. If the number of people running in the Republican primaries is high, that helps Trump. His base is solid, so the others just split the 70% that's left. If Republicans really don't want Trump representing them, they'd have to get their shit together and stand united behind an alternative. I don't expect that to happen.

    So really, if a Republican doesn't want Trump, it would be best to become a swing voter.
  • 180 Proof

    "America ... threatened by the scumbaggery of a man and his family...."


    Putin's Bitch was indicted by the US DoJ today ...
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