• javi2541997
    2.2k


    The simulation depends on ourselves! The imagination of humans is extraordinary :sparkle:
  • Agent Smith
    7.6k
    The simulation depends on ourselves! The imagination of humans is extraordinaryjavi2541997

    Syād, we could be simulating an older version of our world, one less-than-perfect.
  • javi2541997
    2.2k
    we could be simulating an older version of our worldAgent Smith

    Interesting. That's would mean there are different time versions of our real world. Then, the "real" world (who is simulating others) is the only one who is living in the correct time. If we think it deeply, probably you and me would be 150 years old in other reality
  • Agent Smith
    7.6k
    Interesting. That's would mean there are different time versions of our real world. Then, the "real" world (who is simulating others) is the only one who is living in the correct time. If we think it deeply, probably you and me would be 150 years old in other realityjavi2541997

    Syād, this is a possibility we should look into, oui? Nostalgia is one reason why we would want to simulate an older version of The Matrix.
  • javi2541997
    2.2k
    Nostalgia is one reason why we would want to simulate an older version of The Matrix.Agent Smith

    :up: :sparkle:

    The Cambridge dictionary defines nostalgia as: a feeling of pleasure and also slight sadness when you think about things that happened in the past.

    It is interesting because the cause of nostalgia is on the fact that we no longer can live those experiences. If we able to do so, we would not feel nostalgia then.
  • Pantagruel
    2.1k
    ↪Benj96 What difference would it make to our existence whether or not "we live in a simulation"?180 Proof

    Philosophically, this seems the soundest approach. If reality in general is "of the nature of a simulation" then that doesn't add or subtract anything from the idea of reality as it affects or is affected by us.

    On the other hand, this sense doesn't seem to cover what is meant by simulation, which is something that is done or made by someone. So the next logical step in a simulation hypothesis would seem to be the Cartesian demon. In that case, I suppose the possibility arises that we can in some way escape or transcend the simulation. Perhaps in the sense that one seeks to transcend Samsara.
  • 180 Proof
    9.8k
    Perhaps in the sense that one seeks to transcend Samsara.Pantagruel
    Zapffe & Camus call this "absurd". And Buddhists' say "ignorance" of anicca, etc aka "karma". Spinoza refers to "inadequate idea". Etc.
  • Cheshire
    1k
    It would have to be a pretty lousy simulation if the people in it were constantly pointing out they were in a simulation. Really, at that point it ceases to be a simulation and just is the context. So, any answer is that we simply live in our version of the real world. Which is where we were when we asked in the first place. Why's my cat acting funny? Probably the hurricane.
  • Deus
    293


    Personally I love the simulation although the sex could be better …and what the hell is up with viagra on all this…

    Anyway…it’s definitely a cool thing this so called world I kinda like and as for death itself what the hell is it anyway ? Must be similar to sleep
  • javi2541997
    2.2k
    It would have to be a pretty lousy simulation if the people in it were constantly pointing out they were in a simulation. Really, at that point it ceases to be a simulation and just is the context. So, any answer is that we simply live in our version of the real worldCheshire

    :up: :sparkle:
  • Agent Smith
    7.6k
    It would have to be a pretty lousy simulation if the people in it were constantly pointing out they were in a simulation.Cheshire

    :rofl: Syād, on point! Nevertheless, we're unable to distinguish real vs. unreal which is, to the coder/programmer behind the sim, a compliment, oui mon ami?
  • Cheshire
    1k
    I never had to reference a Sanskrit dictionary before, so kudos. You run into a bit of a problem with a declaration of we can't distinguish real vs unreal because it's making a statement about a "real" state of affairs if you believe it. I think holding the world as tentatively real acknowledges the corroborating evidence we find.

    The arguments I've heard are along the lines of probability that more lives could be simulated than could exist; but that argument still requires at least one real world. There's nothing that requires any simulations to exist. So, in any case (such as this one) the expected value for a real world is 1 and the number of simulations is between 0 and unknown. The reasonable bet is on a known outcome, until we know there exists simulations of real worlds where people exist and can't tell the difference.
  • Agent Smith
    7.6k


    Syat ...

    What was taken for real (out there, distinct and separate from us) is being questioned; it could all be a hallucination (in our heads). As for considering the world tentatively/provisionally real, I'm all for it, but note, the damage is already done.
  • Gnomon
    2.6k
    What was taken for real (out there, distinct and separate from us) is being questioned; it could all be a hallucination (in our heads). As for considering the world tentatively/provisionally real, I'm all for it, but note, the damage is already done.Agent Smith
    The simulation hypothesis is fun for computer nerds to contemplate, perhaps because they see no personal consequences of the notion of artificial Reality. In Existential Physics, physicist Sabine Hossenfelder admitted, "I quite like the idea that we live in a computer simulation. It gives me hope that things will be better on the next level." (heaven?) But that hope seems to be based on faith in the good intentions of the unknown programmers. She goes on to note that, "this simulation hypothesis . . . has been mostly ignored by physicists, but it enjoys a certain popularity among philosophers and people who like to think of themselves as intellectual. Evidently, it's more appealing the less you know about physics".

    But, what does she know about computer simulations, except for the mathematical models that theoretical physicists create to emulate how the physical world actually works? She seems to think the alien simulations are actually patterned after traditional religious beliefs about super-intelligent super-powerful beings. "The belief in an omniscient being that can interfere with the laws of nature, but that for some reason remains hidden from us, is a common element of monotheistic religions". Unfortunately, my own explorations of philosophical origins questions are typically placed in the obsolete notion basket, without any knowledge of the actual proposal. It suggests a logical explanation why an immaterial programmer would remain forever beyond the reach of our materialist metaphors. And why the programmer allows the program to run without miraculous interference.

    Reality Simulation games would be no fun for emotion-driven players, if they couldn't play god, by occasionally over-riding the program. But an abstract bodiless self-existent Programmer (pure Logic, pure Math, pure Information) would presumably have no hormonal urges to over-ride the original end-state-intent (teleology) of the program : the Final Cause output. That makes sense to me, but Hossenfelder might still reject it as philosophical speculation beyond the hard physical evidence. But, that's OK, I don't pretend to be a physicist. Just an explorer beyond the edges of the known world. :nerd:

    PS__ Hossenfelder goes on to say that "physicists have looked for signs that natural laws really proceed step-by step, like a computer code". But what if the universe functions more like a non-digital integrated brain. . . . . Just philosophical fodder for unfettered thought.

    UNCHARTED TERRITORY --- HERE BE DRAGONS
    here-there-be-dragons.jpg
    DOES THE UNIVERSE RESEMBLE THE HUMAN BRAIN?
    https://phys.org/news/2020-11-human-brain-resemble-universe.html
    doesthehuman.jpg
  • Agent Smith
    7.6k
    Syād ... The Matrix hypothesis is when skepticism becomes fun.
  • Gnomon
    2.6k
    ↪Gnomon
    Syād ... The Matrix hypothesis is when skepticism becomes fun.
    Agent Smith
    Ironically, Neo had to take a magic pill to open his mind to the possibility that his reality might not be what it seemed to his brainwashed senses. Where can we find such pill in our own Matrix? :wink:
  • GLEN willows
    323
    everything you list could be made to SEEM to be in play, whilst still being a simulation.
  • Agent Smith
    7.6k
    Ironically, Neo had to take a magic pill to open his mind to the possibility that his reality might not be what it seemed to his brainwashed senses. Where can we find such pill in our own Matrix? :wink:Gnomon

    The red pill is a metaphor for the willingness/desire for knowledge no matter what the cost.
  • Deus
    293
    What are the consequences upon obtaining conclusive proof that we live in a simulation?

    Also what is the first question you would ask the designer of such a simulation?

    Another question if this world is simulated and corresponds in law to the real world that created it then does it really matter if it is a simulation?
  • Gnomon
    2.6k
    The red pill is a metaphor for the willingness/desire for knowledge no matter what the cost.Agent Smith
    Where can I get a prescription that that? :smile:
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