you underestimate him
— baker

Just remind me, which President lost his party the Senate, the Congress, and the White House, after only one term?

Don't fall for the illusion that he's powerful. Falling for the illusion is the only thing that makes him powerful. — Wayfarer

Donald Trump might now indeed be what you say. But he is a sign of something much bigger, much more powerful, more pervasive than any one single person is or could be. Even if he doesn't get reelected, it's quite possible that someone just like him, and worse, will be. Because this is what America is all about.

Yeah and there's a big bad wolf under your bed, so watch out.

I see no alternative Trumps on the horizon. Nor, regrettably, much by way of anti-Trumps. But don't loose sight of the fact that every one of Trump's challenges to the election have been comprehensively dismissed and ridiculed, many of the leaders of that effort are facing multimillion dollar lawsuits and disbarment. Again, don't fall for the illusion that Trump projects. That is the problem.

Some people here in Europe think that the US is pretty much the Dark Ages. This idea has been around for decades.

Nor, regrettably, much by way of anti-Trumps. — Wayfarer

Exactly. Can the US even produce a viable counterpart to a Trump? Could a counterpart to a Trump even survive in the US?

There are plenty of vocal and harsh critics of Trump, but not many have captured the public imagination. Trump was manufactured by television. That's where the problem reallly is.

The US has shown an alarming and tragic regressive streak, associated with the moronic elements of what is called 'right wing', although really it's a popular culture phenomenon rather than a political movement per se. But there are also many brilliant people, ideas, cultural movements, in the US. I'm in Aus, but my elder son lives in Wisconsin and his children are growing up there, so I have a direct interest. And I retain hope. If I didn't live in Australia the next place I would live would be there.

Trump was manufactured by television. That's where the problem reallly is. — Wayfarer

:100: :up: The question I have is why? I disagree with the right on most things but I know that somewhere in that 70m people there has to be one with honor, honesty and courage. But they didn't float that person. Why? Because television, that's why. And, of course, because the Plutocracy wants division to keep our eyes off of it as it milks the country dry. And our enemies want it because, well, it keeps us off balance so they can go about whatever they are up to without any threat from us.

Giving all the benefit of the doubt possible, and agreeing that the apple cart needed to be tipped, I can't understand why "we" didn't pick a good human being to lead the way.

I've expressed my thought about Liz Cheney before. So let's try another tack. Why for heavens sake would a guy like Crenshaw not avail himself of the opportunity to stand up on his hind legs and bitch-slap Trump, then run for POTUS? No. Instead he sucks up to him and bows down to a base that he could turn toward himself if he had the integrity to try. The guy was a SEAL, for crying out loud. There is no way a guy like bonespurs Trump would last 5 seconds if some guy with Republican macho cred called him out. Oh well, it's their bed. Hopefully we won't have to sleep in it.

TV is not called 'the idiot box' for nothing. OK I watch my fair share, although I'm old enough to remember it being introduced. But overall popular media is often corrosively idiotic. The other thing is - this is a reactionary comment - capitalist democracy in the US lends itself to stupidity because it thrives on fostering useless consumption, and because it favours greedy and unprincipled opportunists over principled leaders. I mean, long and short, 'pop culture' is a steaming pile of horseshit on the whole (with the exception of all the bits of it I like :yum: )

with the exception of all the bits of it I like :yum: — Wayfarer

I know, right? And then there's the wife who likes her shows . . . so the box is on now and then.

with the exception of all the bits of it I like :yum: ) — Wayfarer

P.S. I can honestly say that I never saw a single second of The Apprentice. I had no idea what all the hub bub was when he ran for POTUS. I thought he was just another city slicker realtor from NYC. Everyone knew but me. :lol:

Right. I've never watched a reality TV show. I watch news and current affairs, but also my fair share of streaming drama, mostly detective and police procedurals. I'm intending to spend less time consuming media and more on learning and reading in future, what with the profusion of learning material that's now available on the Internet. Oh, and more music production.

2024 is far too distant to know what will happen. But it’s very likely Trump is nominated and, once again, has the enthusiasm on his side as the “outsider.”

Given that Biden will likely have a Republican Congress for two years and hence have very few accomplishments, depending on the economy Trump could have a shot. Republicans will try to burn everything down so the country blames Biden. But even then, I doubt he’s elected. He was never elected to begin with.

Maybe people will forget that he was the worst president we’ve ever had, and the four years of chaos we endured — it really depends on how enthusiastic the more sane majority of the country feels. If there’s even some enthusiasm, Trump stands no chance. But Biden is a fairly uninspiring guy…

The thing to keep an eye on is this reconciliation bill. Looks like the Manchin and other Republicans are doing their best to destroy it— in which case we won’t have a livable planet for much longer anyway.

The thing to keep an eye on is this reconciliation bill. Looks like the Manchin and other Republicans are doing their best to destroy it— in which case we won’t have a livable planet for much longer anyway. — Xtrix

I think it's time to do what the Republicans did and throw it all on the table. I think the progressive D's should hold their ground, sink the reconciliation bill, sink the infrastructure bill, and not raise the debt limit in December. Let it all come crashing down. Let the conservative Democrats blame the moderate and progressive Democrats. Let the progressive and moderate Democrats blame the conservative Democrats. Let the Democrats blame the Republicans. Let the Republicans blame the Democrats. Let those worthless whores in the media get their apocalyptical wet dream and throw gas on the flames while giving oxygen to "both sides."

Manchin, Sinema, McConnel, Cruz, those stupid Republican governors, and all the other assholes can suck wind and rule over a burning pile of shit.

I better hope I don't get what I pray for. Because it would hurt those I love. But I had to vent.

TV is not called 'the idiot box' for nothing. — Wayfarer

A little bit south of where I live, it's called "the devil's box".