• Joshs
    5.8k
    Recently I came across some formal academic treatments of the concept of wokeness. I found these quite revealing, because they seem to provide a useful explanatory and justificationist impetus for the blameful tone of movements like metoo and BLM , and for cancel culture in general.

    What particularly interests me is how the theoretical concepts these authors use to describe wokeness dovetail with neuroscientific models of cognition like predictive processing , and with psychotherapeutic approaches like cognitive behavioral therapy. This means that wokeness can claim its methods to be consistent with the results of scientific psychology. But things are not so simple. The kinds of scientific theories of cognition and emotion that wokeness is tied to belong to empirical realism, a certain set of theoretical pre-suppositions. According to empirical realism , it make sense to talk about distinctions between true and false, accurate and distorted beliefs, the appearance of things and the actuality of things. Wokeness advocates like Hilde Lindemann, R. Basu , and J. Spencer Atkins, believe , for instance, that false beliefs about others can lead to what they call epistemic harms.

    To think beyond wokeness requires that one think beyond epistemic realism, to take a thoroughgoing social constructivist perspective that sidelines blameful finger-pointing based on what is correct vs incorrect, true vs false. Instead, social constructionism is a means of bracketing or suspending any pronouncement of the real, the reasonable, or the right. In its generative moment, constructionism offers an orientation toward creating new futures, an impetus to societal transformation.

    As Ken Gergen argues , “ Constructionist thought militates against the claims to ethical foundations implicit in much identity politics - that higher ground from which others can so confidently be condemned as inhumane, self-serving, prejudiced, and unjust. Constructionist thought painfully reminds us that we have no transcendent rationale upon which to rest such accusations, and that our sense of moral indignation is itself a product of historically and culturally situated traditions. And the constructionist intones, is it not possible that those we excoriate are but living also within traditions that are, for them, suffused with a sense of ethical primacy? As we find, then, social constructionism is a two edged sword in the political arena, potentially as damaging to the wielding hand as to the opposition.

    If we do envision the impulse toward action as a byproduct of relational engagement, we may also refigure the institutions of blame and responsibility. For if we hold single individuals responsible for their actions, we again position ourselves symbolically as God - here the supreme judge of good and evil. And in our godlike form, we effectively deny our participation in the culture, treating ourselves as the overseeing eye, suspended above the acts of mortals. In contrast, if we envision action as a relational outcome, our sensibilities are horizontally recast. Specifically, a stance of relational responsibility is invited, one in which we approach heinous and egregious action with a curiosity of context. That is, we broaden the network of participation, to consider how the relationships in which the erring individual was involved (personal, mediated, and environmental) have brought about such an end. And, as we broaden the relational context so as to include multiple others, so should we consider their relationships and how they impinge on the actions in question. And if our concern is sufficiently great, we may eventually reach the point in which we realize our own complicity in the action. Blame and responsibility are thus distributed within the community, and indeed the culture. We are all invited thereby to join together in actions that would establish more promising future. (Here, for example, we might consider our own participation in the problem of drugs, rape, homicide, and joblessness).“
  • javi2541997
    5.9k


    This topic is so interesting and appreciated it because empiricism is one of my favourite philosophy disciplines. As you explained is quite complex why our awareness can be presented or not in our dreams while the reality give us a lot of doubts. Specified terms as "true" and "false" depend of how we learn about the society and our life experience. This point is so much important because opens a debate between empiricists and rationalists.
    Descartes once said Reality is when even dreaming you are not wrong. For example, geometry. If you are dreaming about a cube when it is literally the same shape in reality, then that's realism
    Ok this can be a good example, our awareness do not give us failure while dreaming but as John Locke so cleverly said... Who taught us this concept called "cube"? If we never been taught what it is a cube we will not name it in our dreams as a "cube" despite we are dreaming exactly the same.
    So, in this point I guess experience and empiricism is really important in terms of speaking about your topic. I understand science is giving a lot of effort to explain this futhermore than just philosophy.

    What will happen? Science could provide us if awareness is innate or empirical. Nevertheless, this debate will still there because is one of the most important aspects inside philosophy.
  • thewonder
    1.4k
    I've thought this further out than you, I think.

    The mistake of wokeness is to have abandoned potential police magnetism. Though I do advocate for a large-scale dismantling of the security apparatus, being a potential police magnet is just a good idea. Michel Foucault was right and the world is dangerous, man. Generally, I'm in favor of avoiding the police, but there's never a good reason to unbecome a potential police magnet. It's good for you if you're around certain sets of society, identify as being a woman, or are even engaged in certain kinds of activities. It's even good for you if you're a potential political criminal. The caveat, "potential", does need to predicate the whole thing, but there's no real reason to give up on that. I'm not just woke, y'know what I mean, I've got my thinking cap on.

    The internet knows now. So long, odd fellows!
  • unenlightened
    9.2k
    we might consider our own participation in the problem of drugs, rape, homicide, and joblessnessJoshs

    Herewith, some consideration.

    The UK is currently agonising over, (or being entertained by) a case of a serving police officer found guilty of the kidnap, rape and murder of a random stranger.

    This has become associated with ideas of culture of misogyny in the police, and a cultish mutual protection and failure to self investigate, and has been connected to a general failure to prosecute and convict rape, domestic violence and so on. It has strong resonance with the race thing.

    Now my analysis is not much considered in the media, but it goes like this. The position of women in the UK is much better than under the Taliban, but not different in kind. They are both patriarchal cultures. Women's liberation movement, suffrage, and equality legislation has not changed things all that much.

    Consider matrilineal society, as discussed by anthropologists, a kinship system in which ancestral descent is traced through maternal instead of paternal lines. What this means, for a man, is that your children, those for whom you are responsible, those who will inherit your estate, are not your wife/girlfriend's children, but your sister's. It is quite hard to empathise with the mindset that takes this for granted, and the first obvious effect is that is changes the nature of the family radically. The nuclear family does not exist. But that is just the beginning.

    No more paternity tests! It simply doesn't matter who the father is, and who the mother is is usually obvious. The sex act therefore loses most of its importance to society, monogamy becomes unimportant, marriage a quaint and non-functional custom.

    So if one can stand there in the imagination, and regard patriarchy, one sees that the over-riding necessity for the functioning of patriarchy is the control of female sexuality. And one immediately sees that rape and domestic violence have a vital function in patriarchy. Just as thieves function in society to maintain banks and the security industry, so rapists function to maintain the purity of the patrilineal line. It is an absolute requirement of the patrilineal system that women's sexuality is controlled by fear. It's a dangerous unpleasant and under appreciated job, but someone's got to do it.
  • frank
    16k
    So if one can stand there in the imagination, and regard patriarchy, one sees that the over-riding necessity for the functioning of patriarchy is the control of female sexuality. And one immediately sees that rape and domestic violence have a vital function in patriarchy.unenlightened

    I think a constructionist would say that this is a narrative drawn from a sea of diverse facts.

    Maybe as you describe it, you know that the cop who committed rape wasn't conscious of ministering to patriarchy. Maybe you know that the uber-patriarchal Hebrews outlawed rape, and in fact rape conflicts with control of a woman's sexuality.

    So the facts can give rise to varying narratives, so how do we choose? Isn't that what wokeness is really about? It's this vengeful, threatening, tone: "don't be unbiased!"
  • unenlightened
    9.2k
    Isn't that what wokeness is really about? It's this vengeful, threatening, tone: "don't be unbiased!"frank

    Have you accidentally doubled the negative here?
  • frank
    16k
    Have you accidentally doubled the negative here?unenlightened

    I'm venting due to experiences discussing things on this forum. If I try to present an unbiased view, I'm in everyone's shit list, as if we all need to be unfair and hyperbolic (not that anything you said was in that category).
  • Caldwell
    1.3k
    I'm venting due to experiences discussing things on this forum. If I try to present an unbiased view, I'm in everyone's shit list.frank
    :) welcome to the club.
  • Manuel
    4.2k


    There's no doubt that patriarchal societies form a large part of our culture, dominant even, and for this reason, we have the world we have, at least in large part. Those aspects of competition, strength, prowess and such are commonly associated with masculinity.

    A matriarchal society, as per your example, would solve some of the problems we have, maybe lots of them. Not all though, nor am I claiming you believe this.

    I just wonder, in a large scale society, would a matriarchal society be amazing? I have doubts about that. I mean things like rape and violence would very likely be reduced. But it also looks to me as a way out of hard problems: if only women ran the world, the world would be much better in most aspects.

    I think feminism has accomplished a lot in the West since 1960's. There's just much more to do.

    You are right about fear, but that's the method used to control everybody.
  • 180 Proof
    15.4k
    I think feminism has accomplished a lot in the West since 1960's. There's just much more to do.

    You are right about fear, but that's the method used to control everybody.
    Manuel
    :100:
  • tim wood
    9.3k
    :100: Consider matrilineal society, as discussed by anthropologists,....

    So if one can stand there in the imagination, and regard patriarchy, one sees that the over-riding necessity for the functioning of patriarchy is the control of female sexuality.... It is an absolute requirement of the patrilineal system that women's sexuality is controlled by fear.
    unenlightened

    Well and bluntly said, the whole post, a read for everyone.

    A book, name and author escaping me, recounted an ancient history, some of it speculation, of the battle of men v. women, male hunter-warrior essentially nomadic cultures v. female earth-as-mother mainly stable agricultural cultures. I cannot now do the book justice - partly it was provocative - but the lasting impression being that the battle, often the stuff of jokes, was and is deadly serious and ancient in origin.
  • I like sushi
    4.9k
    To think beyond wokeness requires that one think beyond epistemic realism, to take a thoroughgoing social constructivist perspective that sidelines blameful finger-pointing based on what is correct vs incorrect, true vs false. Instead, social constructionism is a means of bracketing or suspending any pronouncement of the real, the reasonable, or the right. In its generative moment, constructionism offers an orientation toward creating new futures, an impetus to societal transformation.Joshs

    Ideally yes yes yes! In reality people don't understand what this means all too often and think they can literally dismiss the basic fundamentals of scientific investigation.

    As Ken Gergen argues , “ Constructionist thought militates against the claims to ethical foundations implicit in much identity politics - that higher ground from which others can so confidently be condemned as inhumane, self-serving, prejudiced, and unjust. Constructionist thought painfully reminds us that we have no transcendent rationale upon which to rest such accusations, and that our sense of moral indignation is itself a product of historically and culturally situated traditions. And the constructionist intones, is it not possible that those we excoriate are but living also within traditions that are, for them, suffused with a sense of ethical primacy? As we find, then, social constructionism is a two edged sword in the political arena, potentially as damaging to the wielding hand as to the opposition.Joshs

    Nice.

    The final paragraph I'll dig into later. You certainly touch on something that will hopefully make for a good discussion here :) Hope we can disagree the right amount and both get something out of it :)
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