@Nobeernolife why do you want to call it the Chinese virus so badly? It has a decided-upon name already, so use that.

I'm actually the only person who moderates here. Everyone else is just a decoy to share out user complaints.

Just determined by the admins and their moderate minions. — unenlightened

I'm not moderate.

Isn't capitalism defined as private ownership of the means of production, and opposed to that is state ownership? If the Singapore government controls most of the market then it's closer to state ownership than private ownership. 90% of the land is owned by the government for example.

Does the Singapore economy count as capitalist? It's certainly a free-market economy, but I believe the government controls most of it?

I lived in a caravan next to a field of pigs, rather than pay rent and spent the money in the pub. — Punshhh

Eh, student loans paid for my rent so I'm all good there.

Have you considered having sex with your sister in law across the street? — Hanover

That's a horrible thing to suggest. We're social-distancing for a reason you know. Gotta wait for the virus to die out first and then we can get back to fucking our sister-in-laws. Although maybe not across the street. Unless you bring out a mattress or something that would really hurt.

In the UK, in our equivalent of freshman year, we normally get our own (small) rooms and have flatmates in shared accommodation. — Evil

My uni halls had single and shared rooms. I had a single thankfully.

I like to be able to walk around in my boxers and bump loud music and sing along, every now and then, just to decompress. — csalisbury

What's stopping you?

Let's take McDonalds as an example. According to this they have 210,000 employees and a revenue of $21.076 billion. If we shut down McDonalds and pay their (former) employees $15 an hour, 40 hours a week, for an annual salary of $31,320 to not work, that's $6,577,200,000.

So a (worldwide) tax increase of $6,577,200,000, with $14,498,800,000 that can now be spent/invested elsewhere.

And you think that's going to introduce economic problems that will cause more suffering than is saved by McDonalds' employees not having to work?

I don't believe money comes from trees, so the lack of work in a society will result in its eventual failure. — Hanover

But the money isn't coming from trees. It's coming from the government, which in turn is coming from tax payers who would have spent that money at fast food restaurants but are now paying it in additional tax. So there's no creation of money here, just a redistribution of existing money.

What does it matter if the money goes from me to the government to the newly unemployed rather than from me to McDonalds to their employees? It might actually be that less money is being spent as this theoretical UBI (although not really universal, just to former fast food employees) can be capped at some minimum wage.

What do you mean by being better off? You brought up suffering before so I was just addressing that. Does it matter if some people aren’t incentivised to work? They might be happier for it. Do we really need fast food restaurants? We could do away with them and their employees can live off UBI.

I guess you'll be in favour of tax-funded UBI? Reduces the amount of suffering. If a few thousand rich people have less money to spend on second homes and diamond watches so that millions more people can get out of poverty or having to have second jobs then the country will be a quantitatively less miserable place.

I guess not everyone subscribes to such a utilitarian position.

Mostly better thanks, although now her husband has it.

I'm not sure this really addresses the point I made. It isn't just about the loss of life. It's about hospitals not being able to cope with the massive demand on their resources. There'll probably be a huge economic impact if it all goes to shit.

Incidentally this is also why your question about car deaths misses the point. The healthcare industry can cope with that loss of life. It can't cope with a pandemic, hence the need to flatten the curve.

I've mentioned this before but it's not just about old people dying from the disease. It's also about the health service being overburdened. There are lots of people (young and old) who require hospitalization but don't die. That's why there's all this talk about "flattening the curve" which I believe is the prime motivation behind the quarantines.

Why have so many coronavirus patients died in Italy?

“The age of our patients in hospitals is substantially older - the median is 67, while in China it was 46,” Prof Ricciardi says. “So essentially the age distribution of our patients is squeezed to an older age and this is substantial in increasing the lethality.”

This might explain why some countries have much higher mortality rates. A greater proportion of those who are infected are older.

Probably because Italy has about a third of all deaths with a CFR of over 10%, followed by Spain, where it is about 9% — Echarmion

And 4.9% here in the UK, where a 21 year old with no apparent health issues died.

Coronavirus mortality raise has risen since I last checked. 4.5%.

One additional one:

Never forget that activists and politicians will capitalize on any tragedy for political gain. — Hanover

During/soon after tragedy = now isn’t the time
Long after tragedy = this isn’t needed

I see it said about gun control too. So when is the right time?

Universal healthcare should have been obvious given that most of Europe has it.

I'm happy with my understanding. And my understanding is that you have it wrong. We're not trying to create a herd immunity by promoting the spread of the disease.

The U.K.’s Coronavirus ‘Herd Immunity’ Debacle

Herd immunity is typically generated through vaccination, and while it could arise through widespread infection, “you don’t rely on the very deadly infectious agent to create an immune population,” says Akiko Iwasaki, a virologist at the Yale School of Medicine. And that seemed like the goal. In interviews, Vallance and others certainly made it sound like the government was deliberately aiming for 60 percent of the populace to fall ill. Keep calm and carry on … and get COVID-19.

That is not the plan.

“People have misinterpreted the phrase herd immunity as meaning that we’re going to have an epidemic to get people infected,” says Graham Medley at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. Medley chairs a group of scientists who model the spread of infectious diseases and advise the government on pandemic responses. He says that the actual goal is the same as that of other countries: flatten the curve by staggering the onset of infections. As a consequence, the nation may achieve herd immunity; it’s a side effect, not an aim.

Herd immunity can be created by just having the virus spread through communities, which is what we're doing. — frank

That seems counterproductive. Herd immunity is a protection against spread. We want herd immunity to stop the disease from spreading.

It's not illegal immigration if they're granted asylum. Therefore if you take issue with those granted asylum then your issue isn't just with illegal immigration but also some legal migration.

but if you mutter the magic word "asylum" it does not matter who you are or where you are from... you are welcomed into the welfare system. — Nobeernolife

No, I'm pretty sure you have to also show that you're in danger if you return home. You can't just claim asylum and that be the end of it.

Also, your post isn't making much sense. Are you arguing about what is or isn't legal or about what is or isn't "right"? Your first post referred to "illegal" migrants, but now you seem to be attacking the laws regarding asylum itself. So even if a migrant is a legal migrant, via asylum, you still have a problem with them. In which Benkei is probably right in accusing you of xenophobia, as your issue isn't just with illegal immigrants but also asylum seekers (who if granted asylum are legal migrants).

Pretty sure there won't be herd immunity until there's a vaccine. And in the case of coronavirus 29–74% of the population need to be immunised.

@Shawn what kind of hydroxychloroquine did you buy? According to this, the medicine requires a prescription, but the way you phrased it suggests that you just ordered online.

Doubt all you like. Your accusations are fake news.

Shawn didn’t buy fishbowl cleaner. — NOS4A2

I don't know what he bought. And this seems like deflection. My posting the article had nothing to do with Trump.

Do you think they put Trump in there for any other reason? They posted that for the same reason you posted it, and thatlmost certainly wasn’t to inform others. — NOS4A2

I posted it in response to Shawn saying that he bought some, asking him to be careful. Neither the comment I was replying to nor my comment mentioned Trump at all.

So is your accusation here fake news or an honest mistake on your part?

It was sensationalist and false, with the intent to mislead in order to damage a person. Didn’t you post a similar story? — NOS4A2

Where's the evidence that there was an intent to mislead in order to damage a person? As I said, the fact that they corrected themselves suggest that it was an honest mistake.

I don’t think you know what real news is. — NOS4A2

I do. Real news can make mistakes. Fake news on the other hand "is a form of news consisting of deliberate disinformation or hoaxes ... written and published usually with the intent to mislead in order to damage an agency, entity, or person, and/or gain financially or politically, often using sensationalist, dishonest, or outright fabricated headlines to increase readership."

The fact that Axios publicly corrected themselves suggests that it was an honest mistake.

More fake news to add to the pile. Good on them. — NOS4A2

I don't think you know what fake news is.

Coronavirus: US could become new epicentre of outbreak amid ‘very large acceleration’ in cases, WHO warns

Over 46,000 infections and 530 deaths recorded, putting America on course to overtake Italy in number of cases.

...

Authorities have suggested the US is on track to eventually overtake China’s nearly 82,000 infections.

Probably not a good idea for Trump to start easing restrictions.

Democrats have decided to shirk a Senate vote on worker relief — NOS4A2

I thought the Democrats' problem with it is that it wasn't worker relief but a corporate bailout.

They’re playing with people’s livelihood to include provisions such as diversity hiring, aviation climate change studies, minimum wage, and other piffle. — NOS4A2

Aren't Republicans also playing with people's livelihood to include provisions that are a Republican policy wishlist?

So the UK is locked down. We're only allowed to leave our houses for food, for exercise once a day, and if we can't work from home and our work is essential.

I miss the days where I was just worried about Brexit.

I bought some Hydroxychloroquine yesterday. It's touted as safe and one of the reasons it's been halting the spread of Coronovirus in South Korea and China. — Shawn

Man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine

Be careful.

So it turns out the Spanish Flu didn't actually originate in Spain. Top contenders are France, Britain, China, and the United States. It's only known as the Spanish Flu because France, Britain, and the United States were suppressing news about it due to WWI, and so all the news came from Spain.