"Assume" whatever you like but you've not offered a valid argument yet and without any demonstrable evidence of either "causality" (Hume) or "some divine force" (Epicurus, Spinoza, Hume) you're just talking out of your *ss – poor reasoning at best.Causality itself implies things are caused, so I would assume causality has a cause, it is the case directly, probably by some divine force. — Barkon
What about vaccuum fluctuations, virtual particles or other random events?Things don't pop up for no reason ... — Barkon
Naturalism.You laugh at mine [value system] but what is yours grounded in? — BitconnectCarlos
Naturalism is internally coherent and consistent with the demonstrable facts of both our species' cognitive limitations and the regularities of the natural world of which we are constituted.Why is it true?
No. Spinoza (Epicurus, A. Murray, P. Foot, M. Nussbaum ...)BecauseMarx said it?
Your ongoing injustices forfeits it ... ever since "the shofar blew down the walls of Jericho." :eyes:... where's our justice?
:lol:What does yours tell you? — BitconnectCarlos
Oppression exonerates the oppressed. The best security against terrorism is not to practice it in the first place (re: Israel as well as the US, EU, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia & Iran). :fire:[W]e don't exonerate murder, rape, and man stealing because one is from an oppressed group.
Several decades of suffering of the dispossessed – Warsaw Ghettoized – Palestinian people.[W]hat monstrous thing is concealed in the shadows beyond this raging bonfire? — tim wood
... The Promised Land Grab ... Manifest Destiny ... White Man's Burden ... Lebensraum ... Making Apartheid Great Again ...Zionism seeks a homeland — BitconnectCarlos
I don't understand the question. :confused:So I would want to ask, first, why "positive utilitarianism" is not partially correct (i.e. why consideration of the harm-complement is non-moral). — Leontiskos
From a 2023 thread Convince Me of Moral Realism, by 'harm' (in some of its various forms) I mean this:Second, I would want to inquire into the relevant definition of harm.
And by 'injustice' I mean harm to individuals as a direct or indirect consequence of a social structure, or lack thereof, reproduced by customs, public policies, legistlation, jurisprudence or arbitrary violence. Thus, utilitarianism is a kind (or subset) of consequentialism.- deprivation (of e.g. sustanence, shelter, sleep, touch, esteem, care, health, hygiene, trust, safety, etc)
- dysfunction (i.e. injury, ill-health, disability)
- helplessness (i.e. trapped, confined, or fear-terror of being vulnerable)
- stupidity (i.e. maladaptive habits (e.g. mimetic violence, lose-lose preferences, etc))
- betrayal (i.e. trust-hazards)
- bereavement (i.e. losing loved ones & close friends), etc ...
... in effect, any involuntary decrease, irreparable loss or final elimination of human agency — 180 Proof
Maybe I've missed it but could you briefly describe "classical justice" or link to a post upthread where you discuss it. Thanks.In general I am apt to prefer classical justice ... — Leontiskos
:100:This is the legacy of the Israeli oppression of Palestinians. — Punshhh
Willful ignorance (my mistake assuming the video, etc I'd offered you upthread would help educate you on this matter) or craven deceit. :shade:I am unaware of any hostages held by the Israelis. — tim wood
The aggressor-oppressor (apartheid) State of Israel first. :up:Destroy all oppression — Moses
Not half as "funny" as the apologists for decades of Israeli settler dispossession, Shin Bet apartheid and IDF collective punishment who incorrigibly fail to recognize/acknowledge that Hamas and others "terrorists" are the logical consequence of (US-backed) Irgun/Likudnik *zion-über-alles* fascism. As long as a man is beaten savagely everyday like a dog, the only moral "demand" is for the beatings to stop in order for 'the dog' to learn how to stop trying to rip out 'the dog-beater's' throat. "Eye for an eye", Moses – lose-lose or win-win: oppressor's (Pharoah's), not the oppressed's (Hebrew exiles'), choice. :brow:Funny how they never demand a Palestine free of Hamas’s occupation & oppression. — Moses
They all should be released asap just as all the Palestinian non-militants held hostage and tortured in Israeli prisons should be released. And the nearly 2 million Gazan hostages should be released asap. Lastly, the Israeli population, who are hostages of several decades of right wing, colonizer-settler "Greater Israel", anti-peace policies, should be released as well.1) What do you say should be done now about the hostages? — tim wood
Exactly what you apologists fear – the aspirational struggle: Palestine free of Israeli occupation & oppression. No doubt, at least since 1967, opposing a free Palestine consequently opposes a free Israel.2) You added to the video you reference above, "Free Palestine!" What exactly do you mean by that?
Yes, that's why i linked you and others to this video on 'the history' of Israeli oppression of Gazans et al.I don't know enough ... — tim wood
Strawman, of course. 'Collective punishment' (e.g. domicide¹) and 'disproportionate retaliatory slaughter' of a several decades-long captive population for "October 7th" by (US client-state) Israel are, at least, ongoing war crimes.... representation that Gazans are simply innocent victims and responsibility-free.
:100: :up:Palestinian [oppressed] kills Jew = Resistance. Jew [oppressor] kills Palestinian = war crime.
— BitconnectCarlos
That's how it works when one party is oppressed and the other is oppressed. That has nothing to do with identity. — Benkei
No. However, injustice is a kind of harm perpetrated by a group (i.e. its institutional functionaries) against individuals.Is harm thought to be synonymous with justice? — Leontiskos
Not if "incapacitating" the gunman is the only or least harmful way to prevent the gunman from doing greater, perhaps lethal, harm (e.g. like surgically removing a malignant tumor or severing a foot caught in a bear trap or terminating an unwanted pregnancy before viability (or an unviable pregnancy that is more likely than not to kill the pregnant woman)).For example, if someone enters your house with a gun and you sneak up behind them and knock them unconscious in order to incapacitate them, would the negative utilitarian say that you have harmed them? If this does not count as harm ...
What I mean is this: to say that "all human actions are moral actions" (dogma) in effect negates itself (dialectically) by entailing that there are no non-moral actions to distinguish from, and thereby identify, "moral actions". Thus, for me at least, your OP's premises are incoherent.I don’t follow your objection. — Leontiskos
:fire:The desire for what is good does not mean that the good will be found in our practices. What the good is remains highly problematic.
Reading Aristotle as if his work is not dialectical makes it hard to see that he is guided by unanswered questions rather than dogmatic answers. — Fooloso4
:up:Revolutionary Jews From Spinoza to Marx: The Fight for A Secular World of Universal and Equal Rights by Jonathan Israel — Maw
A post from yesterday ...I am surprised no one has started a thread on this — Manuel
He just died. Surprised there was no mention here.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/19/books/daniel-dennett-dead.html
RIP — fishfry
Ergo ... :death: :flower:No more 'resting in peace' than there would be for cars cut up for scrap. — Wayfarer
One of the surprising discoveries of modern psychology is how easy it is to be ignorant of your own ignorance.
Like many other natural wonders, the human mind is something of a bag of tricks, cobbled together over the eons by the foresightless process of evolution by natural selection.
Philosophy is to science what pigeons are to statues.
There’s simply no polite way to tell people they’ve dedicated their lives to an illusion.
The task of the mind is to produce future, as the poet Paul Valéry once put it. A mind is fundamentally an anticipator, an expectation-generator. It mines the present for clues, which it refines with the help of the materials it has saved from the past, turning them into anticipations of the future. And then it acts, rationally, on the basis of those hard-won anticipations.
The mind is the effect, not the cause. — Daniel Dennett, d. 2024
Of course you would ... just like any other deluded holocaust denier.I'd wager less than 10k civilians killed. — BitconnectCarlos
like you, BitC, et al (re: Netanyahu's 'mass murdering + mass starvation strategy for settlers lebensraum' regime).open supporters of terrorist groups — BitconnectCarlos