keep it as simple as possible. — Agent Smith

I agree with that :razz: I didn't go to school myself, so I don't understand most of what is said here

we must find something the whole world agrees on — Agent Smith

There is something that everyone in the world likes. It is not money or possessions or whathever. It's sex, drugs and music!
Everyone loves sex. If we introduce young children from an early age to the pleasures that you can get from our bodies, men and women will love each other more and harm each other much less later in life.
Everyone loves drugs, just those who haven't tried them yet. Alcohol and caffeine are also a drug in my eyes. Who doesn't like to drink a good fresh beer. Science needs to better research alcohol and drugs and see their benefits.
But music is something completely different. Who doesn't like going hard to good music. Did you know that even plants grow better when there is music. No invention of man makes plants grow better. Fertilizer is doping for plants and harms the environment, so that doesn't count.

If we succeed in building a society based on sex, drugs and music, and get rid of the competition/oppression systems like money and religion, the rest will come naturally. People will live much healthier and happier lives. But everyone says I have devilish thoughts and it will never work.
Is this something we can move on to?

Wow, so many people guessed wrong. :chin: Not hard that no one believes me.
But I will make a prediction that will probably also be wrong. But if I'm right...... :starstruck:
2022 is the year, 100% sure
October is the month, not 100% sure.

Now you can of course laugh at me. We will see

OK, again. Abolish money. Anyone agree? If so, please explain. If not, let this discussion go away. If you don't understand why abolishing money is better for our society, just ask.

thanks :kiss:

This topic was originally about devising an alternative economic system. An alternative to the competitive money system. But it's more about woo-woo than about finding solutions. regrettable — Vincent

Can't you two talk about smart bs in your discussion? If no one is interested in my topic then make it disappear

But I guess this would happen in countries which are used to wars and violence. — javi2541997

Indeed, Europe and America are doomed. But as you know they are bad losers and I fear they want to drag everyone into their conflict.

It is a silent apocalypse — javi2541997

What if the heat waves that are now underway continue to increase and the ice sheets break off. Then the sea will rise quickly. If you know that about half of the people live by the sea. Then there will be an immense flow of refugees inland. And because it is so hot or because there are immense rains, the crops will fail. There will be no food and drinking water. Do you think there will be no war then? Then I think it's the law to kill or be killed.
I think that quiet apocalypse we're in right now could be accelerating quickly. It doesn't look like the climate will improve any time soon. Heat records are broken every year.

:up: This forum is really a flop. I am gone. You will think of me when you run out of food. If anyone else is interested in talking about the survival of money, that's okay.

This topic was originally about devising an alternative economic system. An alternative to the competitive money system. But it's more about woo-woo than about finding solutions. regrettable

There are many fringe 'scientists,' who can find evidence for anything you like, even gods — universeness

I think you're someone who won't even believe it when it comes out. You think that everything is already known and that we live in an ideal world. People only change when they suffer. It is clear that you have not suffered much in your life.

In system x1, problem p1 arises. We then develop system x2 to solve problem p1. What happens next is that system x2 has a new problem p2. A new system x3 is needed which will have its very own problem p3. — Agent Smith

:rofl: No offence, but this sounds like something the 'rapture' theists would approve of. Pure woo woo. — universeness

I know that, that's why it's not being listened to. But it has been discovered by scientist Ingo Piepers. He has found patterns in the data of the system wars of history. He is highly regarded in his findings. Of course it hasn't been proven yet. But if this comes true, then we can more easily predict the future without having to listen to nonsense from theists.

I take the longer view. Never mind the 'year,' humans are not 'over' yet, that is what is important. — universeness

There is mathematical evidence that WW3 starts in 2022. So society will fall soon. That's not doom and gloom. That's just the reality. But that won't be the end of course. It will simply be a quest for a new international order. I've been trying to explain that all the time. A cashless world order will make WW3 the last armed war.

Yeah she knows. I kissed a guy in the street once, full on the mouth, during Corona! He was trying to stop a fight about to erupt between me and that f^%&^%ng neighbor of mine. She didn't like it... — Hillary

:rofl:

Thankfully many and hopefully most of your fellow humans have a more optimistic viewpoint. — universeness

We'll see, the year isn't over yet.

Indeed. Most likely my ancestors were very greedy. My grandfather was very greedy and because of that I had a good childhood. But many around me didn't have as many opportunities as I did because their parents weren't greedy. I don't say that because I'm not right, but because I'm concerned with everything and everyone. An example: My grandfather had a lot of money and bought a lot of land with it. He has built all these villas for bankers and investors without children. While 5 kilometers further there are all kinds of small slums where they have to live with many children. Greed is only positive for a few, but it does not help the majority.

'United we stand divided we fall.'
'People of the world UNITE! — universeness

exactly, now everyone is divided, so we will fall. After the fall, everyone will unite. But then there will also be a lot of tears

1: is not an option, because then a meteor shower will take place all over the world. Thousands of other problems will arise.
2: is possible I think by controlling the magnetic effect of objects and the earth. But we don't have the knowledge and technology for that yet. A new industrial revolution is needed first to tackle the real problems.
3: postponement of execution is not an option
4: Abolish money and change people's interests from greed to the real problems like an asteroid or climate change. When the money is gone, the solution will come.

I think basically all human inventions have that property. — Hillary

Indeed. Everything can be used or abused. But money is above everything and thus is the greatest source of oppression

Glad you agree with me. I think that's the most logical thing there is. The money has to go.

I will read it, thanks

Never heard of it. But yes, I think that's how the world works. I call it the law of conservation of hassle. :razz:
The problem is that people see the current system as 'normal'. People don't want to change until they see the problem. So one must be forced. I think that's what Putin is trying to do now.

Money can set free and enslave, dependent on the users. — Hillary

Indeed. But the problem is that the money system gives the opportunity to enslave a population. As long as there is money in the world, there will always be people who will misuse it to oppress. Without money, people are less likely to do so. We all want to be free, right?

1. Sometimes, the tool is the problem. Fossil fuel based engines for example. — Agent Smith

We can use this problem as a solution. We can use these engines to build more environmentally friendly engines. Oil supplies are also running out. So we can use these old technologies to develop new technologies.

2. Sometimes, the tool user is the problem. Replace money with x. Money has been removed, but people are the same. The problem will resurface immediately or later, but it will resurface. — Agent Smith

Indeed. Just after an industrial revolution, everyone is happy and enthusiastic. But after a while new problems will arise and so a new industrial revolution is needed. After every industrial revolution (or war) there is a more unification of the system in the world. I think it goes on and on and on until we're all-knowing and have come up with a system that's really perfect.

where has that been tried? In Belgium we have a basic income and I think things are going reasonably well. The problem is that fictitious money is limited and unfairly distributed. Many are not competitive or may not be 'smart' enough to look after their own money. They have interests that are not useful for the economy and are therefore ostracized. Those who are not useful for the competition economy will never get the chance to further develop their talents.
I think we need to create an economy where everyone gets what they need. Some need more resources than others, so they will have to get more income. Others who need fewer resources will receive less income. Now it's the other way around. Now the people who don't need resources get more income and people who need more resources get less income. Everyone is different and a basic income must therefore be based on the needs of the people and on resources available.
This unequal division and fighting mentality is deteriorating the health of the planet and making people much more pessimistic about everything. A total reset of the economy is needed to save the climate. And that starts with a universal basic income without cash and then has it evolve through the internet and AI in a completely cash-free world. I think that will be possible in a few decades.

The proposal - abolish money - is too extremist. — Agent Smith

It is of course not possible to immediately abolish money. But we can immediately abolish cash. We can introduce a digital global currency where everyone gets a fixed basic income. In this way, competition and crime will disappear.

Too, human nature doesn't take too kindly to things with zero utility. — Agent Smith

It is not human nature not to be kind to useless things. In the eyes of people, something is only useful if it generates money. Something is only useful to a person if he himself benefits from it.
When the competition system disappears and people no longer have to fight for progress, people will find other things useful. Goals will change. And if a good leader stands up to steer the people in the right direction, then people will find things like love useful. In this way people will start to love nature and in the long run they will be able to grow into a protector of life instead of a destroyer.

The question is not 'where are they' or 'do they exist'. The real question is 'why don't they contact us? Imagine yourself in their place. Would you wanting something from humanity. Humans cannot yet combat something as simple as aggression. Why would god of aliens help us. We are a primitive, aggressive, greedy creature that likes to destroy everything. If we can create peace on earth then the proof of God will be delivered

Do you ever compare your 32 years with the proposed 13.8 billion since the big bang?
So far, you and I are tiny wee blips in the cosmic calender scale — universeness

I do that almost constantly. If you know that, then thinking you know a lot is the dumbest thing there is. Our entire society has only been around for 7,000 years or so. If you compare that to those 13 billion years. LOL. People really think we've accomplished something. That we have already discovered everything. We don't know anything yet.

But I've been gone for a few hours now. Still gotta do stuff. See you later

You lost me! — Agent Smith

I understand. :sweat: I have quite a chaotic way of thinking and explaining

Wow, that does sound interesting. I'm going to find it where I can watch it and then check it out. I may be able to learn something from it. thanks

I don't mean you're an idiot. Quite the contrary.
I don't like most theists either, but that doesn't mean I deny the existence of god. God is not an old man on a cloud or anything. God is something that connects us all in one way or another.

I wonder what kinda personality a soothsayer worth their salt has. Gloomy Gus-Nervous Nelly OR Dr. Pangloss-Polyanna? — Agent Smith

What do you mean?

Which personality is more likely to make correct predictions? — Agent Smith

I think you have to have a very special personality to predict something as accurately as possible. Kind of like a psychopath. Someone who can pretend to believe in something and not get caught up in it like most do. And then think about it further without having to believe in it. If you can and do that, you will end up with very strange things.
That sounds very chaotic, but I think I'm pretty good at it. But I can only prove it if it turns out to be true. If none of it is true, then I'm just an imaginer.

No never heard of it. What is it about?

I wonder how well those people who called you an idiot really know you. — universeness

No one really knows me and I've never met anyone who makes the effort to understand me. I also think I've always been with the wrong kind of people.

how much effort did you make, to help them understand you better? — universeness

That's a tough one. I'm 32 now and I still don't understand myself. I've already put a lot of effort into it, but I like to change my mind, which causes a lot of chaos in my head. And changing your mind often comes across as an idiot. I'm not a good speaker either. Typing it works better.

Yes, I said that. But it was part of a play I performed to join the atheist belief and make them admit their own defeat. I started rather pompously, and universeness sensed my play very well. I continued though and almost succeeded, hadn't I revealed the play too early. I couldn't resist when he said that "we surely had many exchanges before", which he said because that wasn't yet the case. And indeed, we have had many many discussions here before.. So I answered, "I think so too!", which settled the score. But I wonder where we would be if I hadn't revealed. I almost got him over! But the clown in me got the upper hand. Again.. — Hillary

LOL. But from the start he said he thought you were a troll.
I didn't get it either. But you shouldn't bully people like that. You say yourself that he is a good person with a heart for people and nature. I don't think you should lie like that.
Rather than working against each other, wouldn't it be better to figure out each other's truths and then come up with a new idea together. We are all going through a very difficult time and if we keep working against each other like this, there will be no solution.
God is not true until science proves otherwise. I believe in its existence, but can't prove it either.

What do you think about the idea of democracy? Does democracy have a place in a free world or will democracy be outlawed? If there is democracy then necessarily some people will ‘lose out’ for the great good of the masses. Is this okay? To what extent? — I like sushi

Democracy will eventually disappear, of course. I think the meaning of democracy is that the majority of the people decide. That doesn't mean it's the truth. People are influenced from the moment they are born by the ideologies of their parents, teachers, religion and their environment. Other people actually decide what upbringing you get and what ultimately makes you who you are and what you stand for. And the more people get the same upbringing, the more people there are with the same opinion. The largest group then wins the democratic elections and the rest are left behind.
The biggest example is about religion. For many years, Christianity has been the largest religion with the most members. And because the vast majority of the world is democratic, so Christianity and their way of living and thinking are the power in the world. But that could change. The 'white' Christians no longer reproduce as they once were. The 'different colored' Muslims, on the other hand, reproduce more than anyone else. They are converting Christians to Islam all over the world.
So if we continue to maintain democracy and just keep doing what we are doing now, then soon the Muslim ideology will be in the majority and they will win the elections.
I don't support any religion because it blocks progress. But if we continue to maintain democracy, religion will continue to exist and we will never make real progress. Then we will always have to keep hoping until someone stands up and manages to make progress.
I think democracy is simply an illusion of freedom. It gives us the right to freedom, but only if you follow the largest group.
Of course I don't know what the solution is. There is so much to think about. But I am not a fan of democracy. But not communism either. There must be something different, something completely new.

Yes that is true. But I thought you were also worth atheist. You said that right?

God is our basis of our existence, but is not visible. Compare it to a tree. The basis are the roots, but they are also not visible. How can you understand the workings of a tree if you can't study the basics. That's the same with man. If you don't believe that humanity has invisible roots (god), then you don't grasp the basics and you can never understand humanity properly.

I think you're still too conservative in your thinking. We will soon merge with the internet. That means that one day we will manage to live in a virtual world. You will be able to change your emotions and your interests the way you want. Eternal life in the cloud. All your memories can be recalled and relive your life for example. In a virtual world, anything is possible. Really everything. Sees it as an artificial heaven.
There will be two worlds. The real (earth, mars, universe, etc), and the virtual world. In the real one we will have to follow the laws of nature, but in the virtual everything is possible. People who are no longer interested in the real world will then be able to spend in this virtual world.

yes lol. I don't know what to say. Maybe I've convinced him that god does exists :razz:

Other than that I just want to point out that ‘absolute freedom’ means ‘absolute responsibility’. No one sane wants to even attempt to take on that burden. — I like sushi

There are people who have no common sense and are willing to take on this task. But these kinds of people are often portrayed as unfit or mad. Our real leaders are usually ostracized.

As for robots and AI you will many people here who would point out several things including the need for humans to feel useful, the fact that there are now billions more people on Earth now than compared to preindustrial times and that your view seems to frame ‘freedom’ as having more leisure time? You have surely heard of people who won the lottery returning to their ‘mundane’ jobs. People like people, and people like to work with people on something. — I like sushi

Now I'm going to come across as very simplistic again. But if we have more free time, we can spend more time making art, can dance all day long. Enjoy nature and life. Have sex several times a day. We will start doing things that we like. Man was not made to sit still and certainly will not give up the need to do anything. But the jobs we usually don't like can easily be done by robots.

Clearly I think your view is a bit naive or maybe overly idealistic/simplistic. That is my first impression — I like sushi

I've never been to school myself, so yes I can come across as quite simplistic. I've had no training in just about anything. Been sick for the last two years too and spent my time in the search for the truth and why there is war

Pure freedom would be quite a brutal way to live btw - see above for murder. Freedom at no cost is not freedom. I cannot possibly see how it could be. If you believe it can come at no cost then explain how please. — I like sushi

Pure freedom is of course not something that will be possible immediately. There would, of course, be the law of the fittest. But we can live up to that. Future technologies such as robots, AI, etc. will eventually replace all our rules and laws by providing us with all basic needs and, in the long run, luxury services.
Absolute freedom is a system that we must build. And that only happens by uniting us more and more in the world every time. This is just going through some kind of war. But that shouldn't necessarily be because of a war as we know it today. More like an industrial revolution. Because after every industrial revolution there are more machines that take over our tasks and there are therefore fewer rules. Because less rules are needed after each industrial revolution, there will be a little more freedom every time. Then the quest for more freedom begins again until the day when a new industrial revolution will be needed to search for the quest for more freedom. This will happen several more times in the coming century. And what will eventually be left is total freedom without any rules.

I think the progress of weapons development will stop after WW3. After the war many people will have disappeared and others will be sick. So the further development of medicine will get a huge boost after WW3. The demand to live longer and perhaps eternal life will increase