Comments

  • The News Discussion
    More than a dozen staff members at the influential conservative think tank the Heritage Foundation are leaving the organization to join a group founded by former Vice President Mike Pence.

    The mass departure follows turmoil within Heritage and the larger conservative movement over the role of right-wing influencers who've promoted antisemitic and other extremist ideas. Those tensions were on display at Heritage after its president, Kevin Roberts, released a video defending Tucker Carlson for a friendly interview in October with Nick Fuentes, an avowed white nationalist who has previously praised Adolf Hitler.
    — NPR
  • SEP reading on possibility and actuality
    We talk as if there were an apple. That's just one of the many games we play with words. And that's related to the counts as... stuff from Searle; we just do talk about apples in this way, like we talk about property and credit, none of which are things in the way the apple in the fruit bowl is.Banno

    My own view is kin to this, except I think we each treat the world around us as an interlocutor. The set of all things I might have had for breakfast is an aspect of expectations I have about the way the world is. I don't fall into a private language problem because the world is there to test me.

    I don't think there's really enough talk between us humans to cover all the sets I have at my mental fingertips.
  • SEP reading on possibility and actuality

    How do you address the ontology of the hypothetical apple? Is it a mental state?
  • SEP reading on possibility and actuality
    As was noted in §2.1.2, for the concretist, there is no special property of the actual world — actuality — that distinguishes it, in any absolute sense, from all of the others; it is simply the world that we inhabit. For abstractionists, however, actuality is a special property that distinguishes exactly one possible world from all others — the actual world is the only world that happens to obtain; it is the one and only way things could be that is the way things as a whole, in fact, are. However, for most abstractionists, the distinctiveness of the actual world does not lie simply in its actuality but in its ontological comprehensiveness: the actual world encompasses all that there is. In a word: most abstractionists are actualists.2.2.3 Actuality and Actualism

    Several ideas are introduced here, one being to obtain.

    Obtaining is something a state of affairs does. In other words, I can conjure a state of affairs that does not obtain. The distinction between an obtaining state of affairs and a true proposition is kind of fuzzy. The early Bertrand Russell said they're the same thing:

    Russell took over from Moore the conception of propositions as mind-independent complexes; a true proposition was then simply identified by Russell with a fact (cf. MTCA, 75-76).SEP

    But we generally draw a distinction between them with a proposition being the content of an expression (or hypothetical expression), and a fact, or state of affairs, being a complex of things and concepts.

    So when we say abstractionists are actualists, this means they hold that any state of affairs that obtains, is a resident of the actual world. The actual world itself is a set.
  • Trump's war in Venezuela? Or something?
    The only thing that Trump can reach is the destruction of US image and standing in the Worldssu

    I'm not sure how to get it across to you that Americans in general do not care what the US looks like to the rest of the world. At all. Nada.
  • SEP reading on possibility and actuality

    Correspondence theory says truthbearers correspond to truthmakers. Truthmakers are central to correspondence theory.

    As that article you just linked says, it's not clear how what's being called truthmaker theory is significantly different from traditional correspondence.
  • SEP reading on possibility and actuality
    I've never heard of such a thing. What is the theory?
  • SEP reading on possibility and actuality
    I can't imagine why you say truthmaker theory of truth is not a theory of truth. It's classified as such in the literature.Relativist

    Can you give an example?
  • SEP reading on possibility and actuality
    You're right. I'll stick with the specific theory I embrace: truthmaker theory. Truthmaker theory is a correspondence theory, but it includes some deflationary truths (specifically: truths about mere possibilities). But overall, it's not deflationary.Relativist

    Truthmaker theories aren't theories of truth. They're theories about truthmakers.
  • SEP reading on possibility and actuality
    For the read-through, I think we are up to 2.2.3 Actuality and Actualism.Banno

    :up:
  • SEP reading on possibility and actuality

    Correspondence theory is not a deflationary account. The t-schema is trivially true. It's not a definition of truth in the way correspondence is.
  • Bannings
    MeEcurb

    Alrighty
  • Donald Trump (All Trump Conversations Here)
    So full on MAGA,Punshhh

    Not me. I think I'm just tuned into abiding elements of American culture.
  • Bannings
    Yes, one must be selective about the stripe of pseudo-intellectual moralism one chooses to associate with.Joshs

    Wait, what's the good kind?
  • SEP reading on possibility and actuality
    One last word on intensionality for Abstractionism, concerning that paragraph about methodology.

    We saw earlier how speaking roughly, the intension of π is the rule that tells you what π’s truth-value would be in every possible world. At issue now is, which is to be master?

    The concretist starts with worlds as given (from AW1) and treats intensions as derivative: once we have worlds, an intension is just a way of tracking truth across them.

    The abstractionist reverses the order. Intensionality, understood as truth-at-a-world, is taken as basic, and possible worlds are introduced as whatever is needed to make sense of modal variation.

    My own intuition is that the disagreement is not about whether worlds or intensions exist; it’s about which we take as explanatorily primary. Seen this way, the two positions, concrete and abstract, are complementary rather than contradictory: they are different “perspectives” on the same metaphysical landscape. That it's more a difference about how we say it than about what is being said.
    Banno

    Is the difference between declaring what's true versus learning what's true? Maybe both sides of that are wrapped up in an if/then statement.

    If Nixon lost the election, then what?

    Answer: He might have continued practicing law in the private sector.

    I declare a world where he lost, then ponder and learn the results. Or it could go the other way:

    What do we have to do to change the tire?

    Answer: in the possible worlds where we change the tire, we might have retrieved a lug wrench.

    Is that what you mean?
  • Donald Trump (All Trump Conversations Here)
    It will be important to rebuild the alliance in the future for the troubling times aheadPunshhh

    That won't happen. There's no reason for it. The US will take Canada and Greenland, continue to undermine Central and S. America, and head into increased global warming alone. It's primary interest in the rest of the world will be that it's clearly understood that the western hemisphere is off limits. Do whatever you want to do, but leave the US out of it or be bombed. That's my prediction.
  • Donald Trump (All Trump Conversations Here)
    Or maybe I did not understand you well and you mean with 'we're going our separate ways now' not you and me in this discussion, but the US and EU. Well, if it is the last part, I think we are in agreement. Not that I like it as an EU citizen, not at all, but it may be where history takes both blocks.Tobias

    Yes. The old alliances are going away. Most Europeans hate Americans don't they? I'd imagine they'd prefer to look toward Germany and maybe BRICS countries for regional community.
  • Bannings
    He was going to be doing sexism and anti-Semitism next. He thought he was being tricky.
  • Donald Trump (All Trump Conversations Here)
    Even so, the structural circumstances had changed, surely they were aware of that?Punshhh

    They did a secret study in 1949 to estimate the cost of the US taking the place of the British Empire. The result was that the figure was uncountable. Someone suggested maybe the US could manage it with the threat of nuclear attack. That was the climate in Washington after the war. The US had no experience dealing with global affairs. The British always handled that, but now the British Empire is apparently gone and the British experts are saying they have no explanation for what's happening in Russia and China. Stalin is actively fostering the impression that the Soviet Union wants to take over the world. We now know that Stalin did want that, but his real motive had to do with America's win in the Pacific with the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It's not that Stalin thought the US would actually try to conquer the USSR, he just couldn't stand the idea of anyone having that much power at a negotiation table. So he builds his own atomic weapons, acts like he's had them for a while, and wants to put them to use in the near future. A Russian historian would comment that in this, Stalin was doing something Russian leaders had been doing for centuries: blowing smoke.

    So you're right, the US bought a cold war for itself, not with a hawkish post-war stance, but with the decision to use atomic bombs on Japan. What Tobias and you are doing is looking at the position of the US today and retrojecting that back to a time when the US was actually in state of shock and panic about the threats that seemed to be looming before them.
  • Donald Trump (All Trump Conversations Here)
    Well I don’t know who thought America was going to be able to pull back and leave Europe to take up here previous role following the war.Punshhh

    The US government thought that, and to that end, the US gave western Europe about $13 billion, hoping that would be enough to get them back in business. The idea that the US was going to have to remain on the global stage, where it had never been before, didn't start sinking in until the early 1950s. The notion that there was ever a "deal" where the US covers Europe's military costs in exchange for what? economic alliance? is absurd.

    You say we’re going our separate ways, I don’t see it, Trump is an anomaly.Punshhh

    I don't think so.
  • SEP reading on possibility and actuality
    My own intuition is that the disagreement is not about whether worlds or intensions exist; it’s about which we take as explanatorily primary. Seen this way, the two positions, concrete and abstract, are complementary rather than contradictory: they are different “perspectives” on the same metaphysical landscape. That it's more a difference about how we say it than about what is being said.Banno

    I'll have to ponder this
  • How Account for the Success of Christianity?

    So now we're talking about violence between Protestants and Catholics, which isn't really related at all to how Christianity became a global religion.
  • Donald Trump (All Trump Conversations Here)

    Our respective narratives aren't really lining up, but as you say, it doesn't really matter. We're going our separate ways now.
  • How Account for the Success of Christianity?
    The Mongols conquered Russia, Poland, and much of Hungary by the 1240s. They were noted for their respect for indigenous religions -- many became Christians, Moslems and BuddhistsEcurb

    Kublai Khan's father had a hobby where every afternoon he would sit down with a Muslim, a Buddhist, and a Christian and listen to them argue. A Latin clergyman went out to visit him and asked at one point why he didn't become a Muslim. He reportedly said, "Just as the hand has many fingers, God gives us many paths."
  • How Account for the Success of Christianity?
    These and other heresies were eventually quashed, sometimes violently, but perhaps the fact that Chrisianity was so malleable to suit tastes contributed
    to its spread.
    Ciceronianus

    They never quashed the Nestorians in Central Asia, the Coptics in Egypt, the Byzantines in Constantinople or the Russian Orthodox Church. And I think you'll find that for the most part, when the Latin church used violence, the real reason was political.
  • Donald Trump (All Trump Conversations Here)

    I've read two histories of the era, one by an American historian and the other by a British historian who did research in Russia for two years.
  • How Account for the Success of Christianity?
    I think I've been honest in describing what I think contributed to its success. I think there's significant evidence in support of my position. It's clear many found the new religion attractive, but I don't think that in itself accounts for its spread and dominion.Ciceronianus

    When Europeans started trading with China in the 16th Century, they were a little shocked to discover that Christianity was already there. It was the Nestorian form, and had travelled there through Central Asia. There are still churches out there that are fusions of Christianity and Buddhism. Two thousand years. All over the globe. It's not a simple story.
  • SEP reading on possibility and actuality
    I'm not going back for Meta, who will double down and object to whatever is suggested.Banno

    Me neither. I'm just ignoring him at this point.

    So I think we move on?Banno

    :up:
  • How Account for the Success of Christianity?

    Your question wasn't in good faith to begin with, was it? You weren't asking what this religious framework has been providing such that it's been around for two millennia. You were just taking pot shots. That's what it looked like.
  • Artificial intelligence
    I asked my nurse practitioner a question and she typed it into an AI doctor. Wow.
  • SEP reading on possibility and actuality
    This cannot be correct. If each possible world is separate from every other, in an absolute sense, then there would be no point to considering them, as they'd be completely irrelevant.Metaphysician Undercover

    So, it's kind of clear that you aren't reading along. Can you remedy that?
  • Donald Trump (All Trump Conversations Here)
    The era of the the European colonial wars was a different one from the Vietnam erTobias

    That was a pivot point. The US originally became involved in Vietnam to help the French. French parties came to Washington between 1950 and 1954 asking for help to reassert their power over Vietnam. They emphasized that the world's rubber supply travelled through Vietnam, so if it became Communist, rubber might become expensive.

    The US was planning to disarm after WW2, but Churchill came in 1952 to try to explain that the Russians were behaving threateningly and it wasn't clear what their plans were. The notion that the US ever felt threatened by an armed Europe is a little far-fetched. An armed Germany, well, yes.
  • SEP reading on possibility and actuality
    do what to get my head around the section Irreducible Modality and Intensional Entities, and I don't think the material there especially deep. But finding the right words will take time.Banno

    Looks daunting. I'll see if I can get through it.
  • Missing features, bugs, questions about how to do stuff
    Maybe "number of posts" is indexical.Banno

    To tell you which w you're in? That's handy.
  • Donald Trump (All Trump Conversations Here)

    That's an interesting narrative. The American narrative is that after WW2, the US waited for the UK and France to get back on their feet and take over global governance again. They gave them money to help with that, but neither country seemed to care much about protecting the infrastructure of global trade, so the US decided to take over that role, partly inspired by Stalin's ongoing threats. Someone asked him how much more of Europe he was planning to take and he answered, "Not much."

    I imagine neither of us is overly interested in the narrative of the other though.