• schopenhauer1
    11k
    So UFO aficionados are basically fringe theorists that claim that Earth has been visited by non-human intelligent beings for years/decades/centuries/millennia. You turn on some channels, they have things like "Ancient Aliens"- claims they helped build the pyramids, or perhaps visited the Mayans, Aztecs, and any number of ancient cultures. In the 1940s, right after the invention of the nuclear bomb, you started having sightings in the Los Alamos area, including the infamous Roswell, New Mexico sighting in 1947 which allegedly involved a downed spacecraft with aliens that were retrieved. There's Area 51 which, according to some in the UFO community, houses alien technology. There's claims of Lockheed Martin being involved in reverse engineering of non-human technology. There are supposed sightings of all sorts of objects including: orbs, triangles, cubes with orbs inside, flying saucers, disks, obolid shapes, and now "drones". There are all sorts of theories and supposed "levels" of encounters.. 1st (witness the UFO), 2nd (see physical evidence of it on the ground), 3rd (actual encounter with an ET). You have agencies that pursued it (mainly to debunk it) in the 50s and 60s like Project Bluebook from the US Air Force (which was decommissioned by 1970), you have scientists that were skeptics that worked for Project Bluebook that became the leading researchers in UFOs like J. Allen Hynek (who made a cameo in the film, Close Encounters of the Third Kind). You had alien crazes after the Moon landing, in the 70s and 80s with various movies like Close Encounters, in the 90s you had X Files.. It died down for about 20 years, but is back with a vengeance. Now we have theories, based on supposed ex-government official testimony that there are crafts that are intermodal in that they can fly from the air into the water and back out again. So now there are theories of fringe theories in the UFO community about underground bases, of ships or probes that are produced and mimic various forms, etc. Now, the ET are not considered ET perhaps but NHI (non-human intelligence) that also inhabit our planet in some way alongside us, and have been all along.

    Why is the fascination with UFOs back? Mainly it was caused by the recent couple years of US Congressional hearings that allowed "whistleblowers" to declare that the Pentagon has been tracking UFOs (now called "UAPs" or "Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena") for years, and that they have hundreds of tapes of high resolution footage of them. Not only this, they claim that these programs have retrieved downed craft, and have attempted reverse engineering of them. They claim that it is hidden from the public, that it is "misallocated" funds (I guess meaning, not put where they were intended), and that evidence exists of all this. The caveat being that every time they were pressed for details of the first-hand evidence, the people claiming this would say that they signed top level non-disclosure agreements and that it is classified. Thus, their role as "whistleblower" seems to be pretty tepid. At this point, the validity seems to be primarily on the strength in the numbers of people that testify and the strength in character and credibility of the witnesses.

    So, all that being said, what are the layers of epistemological truth that are involved here? Let me give some considerations...

    1) The very fact that the US Congress is having hearings from ex-military personnel seems strange to me. A couple decades ago, if that was stated, I would have thought you were joking. Nowadays, however, with Trump being elected (twice!) and "fake" news, and all facts being considered as suspect, social media, and the "democratization" of information, everything is up for grabs in the media environment, thus most people now will just shrug their shoulders at the idea that a major country's legislative body has spent time listening to ex-military officials from the executive branch give testimony about programs that have found real UFOs, NHI, retrieval and reverse engineering programs. I think that is significant, but I am not sure if it is significant in the indifference that this is taken by the everyday person, or that the information itself being so otherworldly and "out there" is taken so seriously by US Congress. Either the general attitude is right, (show me the proof, this is more white noise in our oversaturated shock environment) or the Congressional hearing is trying to say something (there is some level of validity to the claim).

    2) US Congress has authorized a new agency under the Department of Defense called AARO: https://www.aaro.mil/About/Mission-Vision/ . This agency is specifically designed to investigate UAP. The first director, Sean Fitzpatrick seemed much more close-lipped and dismissive of the claims made by those in the hearings about the secret government programs. This led the UFO community to shout bullshit, and that he is covering it up. He stepped down and was replaced by Jon Kosloski who is still tight-lipped but apparently more willing to say that they are seeing things that cannot be explained. He has also indicated that he cannot so much as "part his hair" without the Pentagon approving, according to one interviewer. The press has also asked him about UAP after an AARO hearing in the Senate.
    "During a briefing with reporters, Jon Kosloski, director of the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office, admitted that the U.S. government is stumped by several “true anomalies.” According to Kosloski, “There are interesting [UFO] cases that I, with my physics and engineering background and time in the [intelligence community], I do not understand. And I don’t know anybody else who understands them either.”Marik von Rennenkampff - The Hill

    So with that we have various undertones, truths, half truths, and lies to wade through. I see this akin evaluating the validity of the source, the validity of the evidence, and the validity of the context.

    Context: For the validity of context, I do think it is a significant that government agencies are holding any hearings at all about UAP. It would seem if there was no "there" there, it would be a major waste of taxpayer money and time. However, the counterargument is that the Congress members themselves are fringe cooks willing to entertain sensationalist bullshit. With the rise of Trump, QAnon, conspiracy theories, mistrust of government, and social media, I can see that... However, I this does seem to cross party lines, and otherwise "normal" politicians seem quite interested in this. Again, perhaps motivations would be for publicity or diversion.

    From all this, Chuck Schumer has proposed a bill in the Senate for accountability and transparency surrounding UAPs, so top officials in Congress are taking this seriously.

    Another theory could be that this is a major disinformation campaign by the Pentagon to throw off the public from actual activities related to things such as drone technology.. and that we are perhaps seeing played out now in various military installations, like in New Jersey, Virginia, New York, Washington, UK, Germany, and many other regions. This would presumably want the public to think of outlandish things whilst it plays around with some cool tech in "plain sight".

    Evidence: The evidence is quite shabby at this point. There are a few videos like the "tic tac" video of UAPs caught on camera by Air Force pilots, ones that seem to whiz around at great speeds and go under water and out again. Some of these may have already been explained away, some not. The problem is the real "evidence" has only been alleged and when asked for them directly, the people who claim to know say they cannot say as its classified, and often say they would have to go to a "SKIF" to debrief them (outside of the hearing, with NDAs signed and with the Pentagon's authorization to do so, which probably wasn't given when requested). Supposedly there are high resolution videos, physical remains, and even "biologics".

    Sources: The sources have so far been military pilots and ex-intelligence officers. The first one was David Grusch a year ago who "broke open" the case. The latest in mid-November of 2024 was mainly from Luis Elizondo, the ex-director of a department called "AATIP" which preceded AARO as an agency that investigated UAPs, and was originally started with the backing of Senator Harry Reid (an avid UFO enthusiast himself). He said that the evidence is there, and that the people with authorization to say anything are keeping it secret. He is trying to urge them to come forward. He claims also that there is a campaign to keep people like him silent. Here are some videos to better understand these Congressional hearings.

    First round of UAP hearings 2023 clips:


    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/l7P9yXwuU-k

    Second round of UAP hearings 2024 clips:




    Personally, I have never really cared about the topic, watching the occasional movie or show, but thinking it just fringe theories, akin to religions and out of body experiences, etc. However, what makes me take notice is the context- that it is being taken seriously by a major superpower. That does make me take notice more than I would previously. It is hard to wade through all this, but given the framework I provided of context, evidence, and sources, how should one evaluate claims?
  • Hanover
    13k
    It is hard to wade through all this, but given the framework I provided of context, evidence, and sources, how should one evaluate claims?schopenhauer1

    I don't view this through an epistimological lens, as if suggesting the meaning of "truth" has shifted or that there is some paradigm shift where we now accept non-scientific perspectives when deciphering what is true or not.

    I view this through a political lens, as in who is saying it, why they're saying it, and what power they wish to gain through saying it.

    It's a strange turn of events, but the right today represents a counterculture perspective in some regards. They no longer believe in traditional institutions. They reject what the government tells them as all being propoganda. They reject consensus scientific view as being designed for a malicious purpose. Vaccines are designed solely for profit and population control, climate science is designed to offer support for Robin Hoods to control wealth, the FBI is designed to eliminate freedoms, and theories get thrown around about how the entirety of Washington is a massive pedophelia ring. Universities are viewed as powerful mechanisms of control and manipulation of the average citizen, bringing about a 180 degree change from the day when the universities viewed themselves as the speaker for the average citizen.

    The UFO thing is consistent with all of this. It's another instance of someone or something having taken over society in some surreptitious way, with a final plan to take the hard earned belongings and freedoms from average Americans. It's all the result of distrust and paranoia.

    The problem is that the distrust and paranoia has been earned. It's not that the right is rational in its response, but it's not that the left has maintained a moral high ground either. Do what you want, say what you want, try to get what you want, and if you get caught, be more clever the next time.

    Meanwhile, drones fly over NJ and no one is entitled to an explanation.
  • Leontiskos
    3.2k
    Meanwhile, drones fly over NJ and no one is entitled to an explanation.Hanover

    Shoot them down and wait to see who sues you. Problem solved.
  • Hanover
    13k
    Shoot them down and wait to see who sues you. Problem solved.Leontiskos

    Where do you get a surface to air missle?
  • 180 Proof
    15.4k
    "UFOs" = angels & ghosts :roll:
  • Hanover
    13k
    "UFOs" = angels & ghosts :roll:180 Proof

    I wondered about that, but this article says religious people are less likely to believe in UFOs than are atheists.

    https://religionnews.com/2021/08/23/for-atheists-the-idea-of-aliens-seems-real-religious-people-doubt-it/
  • Tom Storm
    9.2k
    Why is the fascination with UFOs back?schopenhauer1

    Not sure but I expect it has a lot to do with people's fear and expectations about the future - AI, technology, politics, etc. I think Jung saw UFO's as an emerging mythology triggered by present day concerns. But media primes us for this stuff and websites abound with conspiracies attached to this narrative. US writer and psychologist David J. Halperin seems to argue they are fear of death and that UFO's preoccupy us when our ontological safety is threatened.

    I wondered about that, but this article says religious people are less likely to believe in UFOs than are atheists.Hanover

    I've known quite a number of atheists who believe in UFO's, ghosts and Bigfoot too. We tend to forget that atheism only refers to disbelief in one thing.
  • T Clark
    14k

    To start, this is a great summary of where things stand. It's easy to see you put time and effort into it. I haven't been paying much attention lately so it's nice to get a feel for what's up. Thanks.

    Nowadays, however, with Trump being elected (twice!) and "fake" news, and all facts being considered as suspect, social media, and the "democratization" of information, everything is up for grabs in the media environment, thus most people now will just shrug their shoulders at the idea that a major country's legislative body has spent time listening to ex-military officials from the executive branch give testimony about programs that have found real UFOs, NHI, retrieval and reverse engineering programs.schopenhauer1

    A prominent philosopher, S. Chopenhauer1, provided evidence today that Donald Trump is a space alien... Never mind.

    Back in the early 2000s, as the Iraq War spun up, I came to an understanding that truth is just whatever you can convince people of. We've gone beyond that - now no one can convince anyone of anything. My suggested response to is to just stop trying. To the extent possible, avoid issues that are as tangled up as the UFO business. Just let it go. Don't resist. Let people get it out of their system. Of course, there are lots of issues we can't do that with, but as far as I can see, this is not one of them. Some additional thoughts, clearly not all of them are original.

    I am not certain about anything related to UFOs, but the thing I am closest to being certain about is that no government agency could keep a secret like this for 75 years.

    People make things up, misapprehend things, and come to believe things that aren't true. They don't have to be dishonest to get it wrong, but they might be. I recommend a book by Martin Gardner, "Science - Good, Bad, and Bogus." It's from the late 1980s, but I think the stories Gardner tells are still relevant. It's about people, both frauds and gullible but honest advocates, making claims about extraordinary phenomena that are not adequately supported by evidence. Subjects covered include UFOs, ESP, bad science, and other fringe issues. The second edition came just too late to include cold fusion. One of the main points he makes is that scientists are often more gullible than laypeople because they have such confidence in their ability to observe and reason.

    I love the fact that a big part of the government's solution is to rename UFOs and start another new agency.

    Of course the irony is that the government could address a lot of this by opening their files. Are their still secrets about events in the 1940s that can't be disclosed for legitimate security reasons? Perhaps. Of course, they've sort of, kind of done that by letting congress have hearings. As you note, that hasn't really resolved anything.

    However, the counterargument is that the Congress members themselves are fringe cooks willing to entertain sensationalist bullshit.schopenhauer1

    I remember reading about a Congressional hearing on climate change. A NASA scientist was describing the physics, astronomy, and climate science related to global warming when he mentioned in passing, and I'm sure to his instant regret, that if the Earth were just a bit further from the sun, warming would be addressed. A Republican congressman spoke up and asked why we couldn't direct the Bureau of Land Management to move the earth a bit further out.
  • 180 Proof
    15.4k
    Just as atheists are less likely than religious people to "believe in" angels & ghosts. As you're well aware, we (confabulatory metacognitive) h. sapiens are quite often (virally) delusional. :pray: :nerd:
  • schopenhauer1
    11k
    I view this through a political lens, as in who is saying it, why they're saying it, and what power they wish to gain through saying it.Hanover

    Interesting enough, I think that can be considered "epistemological" :D. Certainly, someone like Foucault may argue that, for example.

    The UFO thing is consistent with all of this. It's another instance of someone or something having taken over society in some surreptitious way, with a final plan to take the hard earned belongings and freedoms from average Americans. It's all the result of distrust and paranoia.

    The problem is that the distrust and paranoia has been earned. It's not that the right is rational in its response, but it's not that the left has maintained a moral high ground either. Do what you want, say what you want, try to get what you want, and if you get caught, be more clever the next time.

    Meanwhile, drones fly over NJ and no one is entitled to an explanation.
    Hanover

    This last line seems contradictory, no? Wouldn't that be more like, "Drones are flying over NJ, and people just haven't been paying attention- mass hysteria?" Because what you relayed was paranoia about alleged corruption of government institutions, yet the last line insinuates actual disinformation (at the least).
  • Outlander
    2.2k
    Not to derail whatever's going on here, but perhaps the best way to frame things, in a way any person can not only first understand but ultimately progress in, would be as the first ship sailing past a land of "earthbound" or non-seafaring peoples and what their opinions or questions would be. "What could it be?" "Are there people on there?" "Are they trying to kill us?" "Probably!" "No wait, is it perhaps the ancient prophecy of heroes from another world coming to save us from our daily toil and suffering (the original non-graphical "motivational poster" the first rulers laid out to allude to one's own metaphorical self-progress and "realized" self)?" Etc. Those were, after all, the first unidentified "floating" objects.

    Aside from that, little has changed. Man sees something unfamiliar, it's either two or three things. Something of use, something of harm, or something that could go either way. Those who aired on the middle option, often survived. Perhaps many did not and perished where those who aired on the first or third option did. We're simple beings, really. Not much has changed in that regard.
  • schopenhauer1
    11k
    I've known quite a number of atheists who believe in UFO's, ghosts and Bigfoot too. We tend to forget that atheism only refers to disbelief in one thing.Tom Storm

    Yes, so you are attributing it to psychological phenomena, something like mass hysteria or public psychosis. I think media can generate a great deal of this. However, if my theory is correct, and that this latest batch of UFO stuff is from the congressional hearings, what does that indicate in regards to the validity of the claim?

    The answer is revealing. If it is a fact that there was a major governmental hearing entertaining a "whistleblower" about UFOs, does that mean there is something to it, or that the government is run by crazy conspiracists? What should the public think of it? It looks like its affecting how people see the skies around them, for example.
  • schopenhauer1
    11k
    I am not certain about anything related to UFOs, but the thing I am closest to being certain about is that no government agency could keep a secret like this for 75 years.T Clark

    Trump can barely keep his mouth closed about anything. If he knew, that you don't think he would be breadcrumbing that all day and night?? Then again, the "deep state" doesn't trust him, so maybe not ;).

    I love the fact that a big part of the government's solution is to rename UFOs and start another new agency.

    Of course the irony is that the government could address a lot of this by opening their files. Are their still secrets about events in the 1940s that can't be disclosed for legitimate security reasons? Perhaps. Of course, they've sort of, kind of done that by letting congress have hearings. As you note, that hasn't really resolved anything.
    T Clark

    Right, so is there a "there" there? Is it secrecy because government rather have people fooled by UFO stuff when they are working on military technology?
  • schopenhauer1
    11k
    Aside from that, little has changed. Man sees something unfamiliar, it's either two or three things. Something of use, something of harm, or something that could go either way. Those who aired on the middle option, often survived. Perhaps many did not and perished where those who aired on the first or third option did. We're simple beings, really. Not much has changed in that regard.Outlander

    This is assuming any of it is real and not just disinformation or misunderstanding.
  • Tom Storm
    9.2k
    Yes, so you are attributing it to psychological phenomena, something like mass hysteria or public psychosis.schopenhauer1

    No, I am saying this is a candidate explanation. I don't have a firm grasp on what is happening, who is seeing what and what is real and what is media driven and what may be viral hysteria.

    What should the public think of it?schopenhauer1

    Well, for my money, until we actually have something demonstrated to us, we really should suspend our judgement on this 'phenomenon'.
  • schopenhauer1
    11k
    Well, for my money, until we actually have something demonstrated to us, we really should suspend our judgement on this 'phenomenon'.Tom Storm

    Agreed. What should one make of Congress entertaining/hosting it? A bunch of crazy conspiracists or because there is something more? This is the "context" part I was discussing.
  • Tom Storm
    9.2k
    My sense is perhaps this: In the current world of risk management and security, and risk mitigation matrixes, committees and organizations investigate any number of odd things because if they don't they may be seen as neglectful. And there's alwasy the quesion, what if, by not investigating, they miss something critical?
  • Leontiskos
    3.2k
    I wondered about that, but this article says religious people are less likely to believe in UFOs than are atheists.Hanover

    Atheists believe in UFOs because they don't believe in God. Theists don't need to believe in UFOs because they believe in God. Neither one really believes that we are all alone.
  • Hanover
    13k
    Just as atheists are less likely than religious people to "believe in" angels & ghosts. As you're well aware, we (confabulatory metacognitive) h. sapiens are quite often (virally) delusional.180 Proof

    UFOs and bigfoot could exist under our current concept of physics and scientific reality. Gods and angels, not so much. Many theists subscribe to Creationist accounts, and most such literature makes no reference to otherworldly creatures, except for those who reside up high or down low and have supernatural powers.

    I think that's probably why atheists can better accept UFOs and fundamentalists cannot.
  • Hanover
    13k
    Atheists believe in UFOs because they don't believe in God. Theists don't need to believe in UFOs because they believe in God.Leontiskos

    I think my reasons set out to 180 directly above makes more sense, but I'm interested in why you think an atheist would need there to be UFOs to impart meaning on their lives and why you think theists would lose something if they accepted that UFOs existed.

    My view is that there aren't aliens because I've never seen one in the zoo. If you can show me one, I'll change my mind. It's sort of like bigfoot. I'll believe in it when it walks through my backyard,.
  • Leontiskos
    3.2k
    but I'm interested in why you think an atheist would need there to be UFOs to impart meaning on their lives and why you think theists would lose something if they accepted that UFOs existed.Hanover

    I added a sentence for that:

    Neither one really believes that we are all alone.Leontiskos

    For atheists it is statistically improbable that we are all alone, therefore there must be alien intelligence. If you follow the actual reasoning this is what you will find.

    Edit: There is also the narrative that solves the abiogenesis question by appealing to extra terrestrials.

    UFOs and bigfoot could exist under our current concept of physics and scientific reality. Gods and angels, not so much.Hanover

    Except that scientific atheists do not limit their conception of extraterrestrials to our current concept of physics, and smart atheists know that God and angels do not contradict science.

    I think that's probably why atheists can better accept UFOs and fundamentalists cannot.Hanover

    But haven't you equivocated between fundamentalists and believers? Was your study about fundamentalists?
  • Banno
    25.3k
    On the topic of epistemology, the existence of UFOs is classic Popperian stuff.

    You can prove that there is a flying saucer in your back yard - f(a) - by showing it to us.

    You can thereby prove that there are flying saucers - ∃(x)f(x)

    You might show that there are no flying saucers in your back yard.

    You can not disprove that there are flying saucers. Showing that there are non in your back yard does not show that there are not some elsewhere. In Popper's terms, the thesis is no falsifiable.

    But also, and obviously, that people have been looking for flying saucers does not prove that there are flying saucers.
  • schopenhauer1
    11k
    My sense is perhaps this: In the current world of risk management and security, and risk mitigation matrixes, committees and organizations investigate any number of odd things because if they don't they may be seen as neglectful. And there's alwasy the quesion, what if, by not investigating, they miss something critical?Tom Storm

    But if someone is investigating big foot, and someone is investigating nuclear weapons, one is obviously verifiable as a high probability, and one not so much. UFOs are somewhere in between perhaps? This is why sources matter. Sources for this would be military pilots and intelligence officers that are or were formally in government positions to see this first hand. The pilots have testimony and/or video. The testimony stands based on how credible you think the witness is on what they thought they saw, and how lucid they were. The video speaks for itself, but obviously can be explained a whole bunch of ways including quality of the recording device and the parallax effect when viewing moving objects at certain angles and trajectories. As for the ex-military intelligence officers, again, this would have to rely purely on credibility of the person providing testimony, their willingness to be charged with perjury if they were found to be lying, etc.

    So in a way, you can make a matrix like this:

    The institutional distributor of information matters for the public (Is the info coming from a "legitimate" institution like government agencies, or is it coming from your Uncle Joe).

    Sources matter for the information gatherers: (Is the info coming from "legitimate" credible witnesses and accounts, or from bad actors?

    Evidence matters for information gatherers and the public (Is the info first hand accounts, are they recorded, do we have any physical artifacts? Have they been analyzed for material composition, biologics, and comparative design?
  • schopenhauer1
    11k
    But also, and obviously, that people have been looking for flying saucers does not prove that there are flying saucers.Banno

    Yes, and that distinction is important. I am looking at the level of the significance of why supposedly legitimate institutions are "looking" for flying saucers. Is that a result of the abundance of evidence (some perhaps not fully disclosed), or simply the actors doing the "looking"?
  • Relativist
    2.6k
    what makes me take notice is the context- that it is being taken seriously by a major superpower.schopenhauer1
    UAP does not entail aliens; the concern is that a foreign government might be using technology beyond ours. That is potentially relevant, but that may be an excuse, since the alleged behavior often breaks the laws of physics.

    The notion that aliens are here is an irrational conspiracy theory. Members of Congress are as susceptible to this as anyone (former Senator Harry Reid was a believer). Space opera science fiction is so common that it's made many of us receptive to the presence of aliens. Meanwhile, few understand why the liklihood of aliens is of vanishing low probability.

    The broader question is: why do so many people embrace conspiracy theories? The answer is: poor critical thinking skills. Where there are unanswered questions, there will be wild guesses to explain them. The guess gains traction as more facts are shown to fit the guess (applying confirmation bias), and contrary facts ignored or treated as a cover-up by those in authority. A recent example is the attempted killing of Trump, which spawned pro-Trump conspiracies (the deep State, or Democrats were behind it) and anti-Trump conspiracies (it was staged to help his campaign).

    If you're interested in critically analyzing any specific claims about UAE, go to the METABUNK forum. They have subforums on other conspiracy theories as well.
  • Tom Storm
    9.2k
    So in a way, you can make a matrix like this:

    The institutional distributor of information matters for the public (Is the info coming from a "legitimate" institution like government agencies, or is it coming from your Uncle Joe).

    Sources matter for the information gatherers: (Is the info coming from "legitimate" credible witnesses and accounts, or from bad actors?

    Evidence matters for information gatherers and the public (Is the info first hand accounts, are they recorded, do we have any physical artifacts? Have they been analyzed for material compos ition, biologics, and comparative design?
    schopenhauer1

    Sure - there's many ways to do a risk matrix.

    I imagine that the main concern (if true) would be are they the product of a foreign power or a homegrown terrorist? One can ignore one or two eye witnesses but not so easily a plethora of accounts. I wouldn't think aliens is the first idea people go to, unless they already happen to think aliens are a given.

    UAP does not entail aliens; the concern is that a foreign government might be using technology beyond ours.Relativist

    Yep.
  • Banno
    25.3k
    A game played by kids - stand in a group in the middle of a public space - a school playground is ideal - and look and point at the sky. Pretty soon everyone will be looking at the sky.

    But there is nothing there.
  • Relativist
    2.6k
    I wondered about that, but this article says religious people are less likely to believe in UFOs than are atheists.

    https://religionnews.com/2021/08/23/for-atheists-the-idea-of-aliens-seems-real-religious-people-doubt-it/
    Hanover
    The survey showed that atheists were more likely than Christians to believe there was life elsewhere in the universe. That's probably because they believe God created the universe for humans.
  • BC
    13.6k
    a final plan to take the hard earned belongings and freedoms from average AmericansHanover

    I just don't understand why aliens from distant planets want my used appliances and furniture. They could at least offer to trade something -- maybe their old orgazmatron couch, or some nice floor covering?
  • Relativist
    2.6k
    One can ignore one or two eye witnesses but not so easily a plethora of accounts. I wouldn't think aliens is the first idea people go to, unless they already happen to think aliens are a given.Tom Storm
    Aliens are a given to many people, and I suspect, others are apt to be easily convinced because they hope for (or dread) their presence.

    I've encountered quite a few people, who are otherwise rational, who are apt to treat aliens as plausible explanations that should be taken seriously.
  • schopenhauer1
    11k

    But why would they do that? Distraction? Obfuscation? Disinformation? What’s the point?
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