Well I messed that last post up good style :sad:
How do I sort it out ?

My method has been to write the first lines, which usually just pop into my head, and then pull on that thread and see where it goes. Not much help as advice I guess.

I fixed it. It was just a missing square bracket.

Thanks Baden for everything.

No worries, Amity. And if you do come up with an article, run it by us. :up:

If ever an article runs by me, I will be sure to share. For sure :up:

Reviving the short story competition seems a good idea to me as long as admins are allowed to participate. :up: — Baden

So where can I find all the short stories and this competition ?

Well, we haven't revived it yet but I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for keeping me posted about any revival.
I had thought I might discover some decomposing compositions deep in an archival vault :mask:

If I found people that like books like me, that'd be awesome. Nothing against Harry Potter but I want more.

Blogging, with my lack of grammar and hard to follow logic, I think I'd embarrass myself more. Nothing is fixed though. I believe I need more life experience.

It's great to have a community of people. A lot of self-publishers too.



I think that's a good idea, to ask questions online. Have an archive of all your thoughts.

Rome wasn't built in a day. Need to do just 10 minutes a day...Right now I am reading The Laws of Human Nature. I guess it is a self-help book, but it's decent.

Is anyone familiar with the Trivium and Quadrivium and the learning process?

"Reading the Laws of Nature." I just finished that book.last month. I think I would have to buy it to get the best results from it. I didn't take many notes or get much from it. Its a solid book though.

I haven't picked up the Trivium or Quadrivium yet. So I've got nothing to say on those.

I just finished reading "Cosmosapiens." Its thesis is built on the Anthropic principle.I found it in the history section of my local library. Wonders never seize.

I'd see creative writing and academic writing as being different genres — Baden

Yes, so would I, but I would observe that both are creative. Too many people think creativity comes only with art, so Harry Potter requires creativity to write, but a technical manual on a piece of firmware does not. I disagree. :smile:

There's a danger of getting too caught up in semantics here, I guess. I suppose there's a certain amount of creativity involved in academic writing etc., but there are also a bunch of rules and conventions and practices (e.g. re sourcing) that mitigate, sometimes very specifically, against creativity whereas traditional creative writing has much less of that and is much more driven by the imagination. So, we're probably not really so much in disagreement as using terms in different ways (as another example, technical writing and academic writing, I'd see as distinct too).

Yes, the different sorts/styles of writing are different, and they comprise different combinations of things, as you say. But I spent 30 years writing firmware, so I know it to be highly creative. I also know that most people do not see the creativity in designing firmware. The same disbelief extends to technical writing. These people are mistaken. All creative projects are different, but creativity is all over the place, often where we least expect it. I think we should value it more, and recognise it for what it is, wherever it occurs.

Even science hides a kernel of artistic creativity at its core. :smile: [Where else could Quantum Theory have come from? It can't be deduced from the science that preceded it. It was created by a bunch of clever (and creative) scientists.]

Yes, well said. Creativity is not the sole domain of "imaginative literature". All writing is an act of creation, and in that sense, "creative".

I've always thought there's a great deal of overlap between thought experiments in philisophy and short stories. Every take on the trolley problem, for example, is a character waiting to happen. The biggest difference is that short stories are allowed, maybe even encouraged to spin out of control.

I find one of the most important skills in both thought experiements and story writing is not to automatically dismiss that which seems silly. If something seems silly, seize it, double down on it, until it's normalised. It's only one approach, or maybe even only one part of many potential approaches, but it can work. I mean nearly everything seems silly. Imagine woodpeckers don't exist, and someone approaches you with the concept:

I have this idea for a bird. It eats things that live in trees, but it's not patient enough to wait for them to come out, see, so it bangs its beak against the bark again and again and again, and very fast, too, and... What? No, it's not prone to concussions. So, anyway, that's how it makes holes in trees, and... Wait, where are you going?

Looking for inspiration re 'Philosophy Essay' and 'Creative writing', I discovered this thread I started 6 years ago. @Baden gave some excellent advice. One way to write a philosophical article:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/243630

The similarity and differences in academic v non-academic writing:

I suppose there's a certain amount of creativity involved in academic writing etc., but there are also a bunch of rules and conventions and practices (e.g. re sourcing) that mitigate, sometimes very specifically, against creativity whereas traditional creative writing has much less of that and is much more driven by the imagination — Baden

I missed this:

I've always thought there's a great deal of overlap between thought experiments in philisophy and short stories. Every take on the trolley problem, for example, is a character waiting to happen. The biggest difference is that short stories are allowed, maybe even encouraged to spin out of control. — Dawnstorm

I agree that there is overlap. However, I don't think that short stories are 'encouraged to spin out of control'. TPF's Literary Activity ( previously Short Story Competition) is a case in point. The latest: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/15585/literary-activity-dec-2024/p1

Something similar is planned for June 2025. Only it relates to 'Philosophy Essays'.
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/15596/tpf-philosophy-competitionactivity-2025-/p1
I'm hoping to see a few pieces of philosophical writing venturing beyond the academic essay, important as that is. Still structured and exploring key philosophical ideas. Life issues...

It amuses me to see that, back then, I'd only written 50 posts!
Time and words. My, how they do fly :fire:

I agree that there is overlap. However, I don't think that short stories are 'encouraged to spin out of control'. TPF's Literary Activity ( previously Short Story Competition) is a case in point. The latest: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/15585/literary-activity-dec-2024/p1 — Amity

Oh my, this was six years ago? I don't remember this post at all, and I had to go back to read this thread for a while to see why I was saying what I was saying and what I could have meant by it. So it was about creativity in academic writing?

I'm quite fond of chaos in literature, and I find that - since I came online in early 2000s - a certain brand of "creative writing" seminar style has taken over writing forums, so that I grew bored of them and abandoned them. I was also a bit of a know-it-all and a prick back then; didn't much like my way of communicating any more...

Basically, I think my main point was that in writing short stories you're allowed to let your mind wander even if it doesn't go along with your original impetus of writing the story. The same process ruins a philosophical thought experiment.

It amuses me to see that, back then, I'd only written 50 posts! — Amity

Interestingly, I still only have 244 posts (including this one). I'm not the most proficient poster, it seems.

Oh my, this was six years ago? — Dawnstorm

Yeah, I know. Unbelievable, right?! Good to talk with you again :up:

So it was about creativity in academic writing? — Dawnstorm

Pretty much. But not only that. The similarities and differences between philosophy and literature. Creativity in general. How we imagine and reflect on what we read and writng.

Looking back, this writing process stands out:

I keep notes when discovering by thinking. I than take those notes and try to get other people to comment on them, so I can think more clearly and develop my thoughts further. [...]
I think there is a positive feedback between reading and writing. I think it comes with a third variable, that feeds into it, which is one's own interest. I find that my newest ideas come to me when I am:

1) Reading and questioning what I read
2) Thinking and questioning what I am thinking
3) Discussing and questioning what others are thinking. [...]

Consciousness moves from one thought to another, entering and exiting, but it is my mind that makes a decision to follow some line of inquiry.

Discovery is different than ordinary thought/self inspection. Discovery comes about through inquiry into something you know that you don't yet know. And if you can ask a question that leads to discovery that no one knows, you may have potential literary pay-off. — Josh Alfred

Reading. Asking questions can lead to discovery. Following lines of inquiry or imagination. Objective or subjective. Both intertwining at different levels of awareness or consciousness in reading/writing.

***

I'm quite fond of chaos in literature...
... a certain brand of "creative writing" seminar style has taken over writing forums — Dawnstorm

Care to say more?

I was also a bit of a know-it-all and a prick back then; didn't much like my way of communicating any more.. — Dawnstorm

A bit harsh, no? We can all be prick-ish and think we're right. Difficult to let go of own ideas/beliefs when challenged. But wonderful to be surprised by an 'Aha!' moment when reading or listening.

I think my main point was that in writing short stories you're allowed to let your mind wander even if it doesn't go along with your original impetus of writing the story. The same process ruins a philosophical thought experiment. — Dawnstorm

Hmm. I see what you mean. However, the mind will wander/wonder no matter. When it comes to imaginatively creating anything. The creation of a thought experiment may well be more planned. As in a creative 'plotter' v a 'pantser'. But perhaps it can be a bit of both?
And, of course, the reader needs imagination to follow the story of 'what if's' in either scenario.
I don't think this 'ruins' a thought experiment.

I looked up Thought Experiment:

Some have placed “literary fiction on the level of thought experiments” (Swirski 2007, p. 6). There are two readings of such a claim.
According to the first, some literary fiction may be of cognitive power due to the fact that they are thought experiments. In other words, we shouldn’t outright reject the idea that literature can be of cognitive value. Dystopian novels such as Orwell’s 1984 and Huxley’s Brave New World are obvious examples.
According to the second reading, the power of thought experiments is partially a function of the narrative that conveys it. The work of Novalis remains relevant for the exploration of this link between narrative development and thought experiment: experimental writing and experiments on imagined scenarios go hand in hand; words and thoughts coincide; mind and matter are entangled (see Daiber 2001). — SEP - Thought Experiment

[emphasis added]

Novalis - the name seemed familiar:

[He] was a German aristocrat and polymath, who was a poet, novelist, philosopher and mystic. He is regarded as an influential figure of Jena Romanticism.[...]
The fragment allowed him to synthesize poetry, philosophy, and science into a single art form that could be used to address a wide variety of topics.[...]
...he began thinking about how to incorporate his recently acquired knowledge of mining to his philosophical and poetic worldview. In this respect, he shared a commonality with other German authors of the Romantic age. [...]
He was known as the poet of the blue flower, a symbol of romantic yearning from Novalis's unfinished Novel Heinrich von Ofterdingen that became an key emblem for German Romanticism.[41] — Wiki -Novalis

Wow. This is a new discovery for me. Another writer/philosopher/scientist - like Goethe, a favourite of mine. And then, the mention of 'the blue flower'!!

I had no idea when I uploaded my profile pic (yesterday) of its symbolism. Yet, it's so 'right' for me!

A blue flower (German: Blaue Blume) was a central symbol of inspiration for the Romanticism movement, and remains an enduring motif in Western art today.[1] It stands for desire, love, and the metaphysical striving for the infinite and unreachable. It symbolizes hope and the beauty of things. — Wiki - Blue flower

Discovery. Processing something new. Things created or imagined in the mind...analysis, enquiry.
The brain wave for a story. The story creating waves...

I had no idea when I uploaded my profile pic (yesterday) of its symbolism. Yet, it's so 'right' for me! — Amity

I thought that when I saw you changed your profile image. The blue flower belongs to your personality—hope and the pursuit of art. I honestly think it is better now than when you had that soulless 'A' in your profile.

I changed my profile picture a lot of times. Now I have an apple painted by Dali. I will keep this painting for a long time, no doubt about that. I love apples and surrealism.

Salvador Dalí Art Gallery

The blue flower belongs to your personality—hope and the pursuit of art. I honestly think it is better now than when you had that soulless 'A' in your profile. — javi2541997

Good to know I now have a 'soul' :wink:

I only ever saw the 'A' as a the first letter of 'Amity'. For 6yrs I didn't see any reason to change it.
What did it matter?

Recently, I had a shift in attitude. Why?
I realised that, compared to @Moliere's profile pic, 'A' was pretty much invisible.

In June 2025, we will be co-hosting a new and challenging TPF event.
To celebrate Creativity in Philosophy Writing. Imagination in Reading. To come together for some serious enjoyment. :cool: like the Eurovision Song Contest! :party:

The bland 'A' just wouldn't cut it. I needed to attract with a vibrant, new dress. It had to be blue.
'A' for Aesthetics comes into play.
Just like your 'Apple'.

It's not just an apple, though, is it? A butterfly is emerging from it, or through it. From a chrysalis.
Is this about Eve's plucking the forbidden fruit leading to knowledge? The Creation story in the Bible.

She decides to eat the forbidden fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil after she hears the serpent's argument that it would not kill her but bring her benefits. She shares the fruit with Adam, and before they could eat of the tree of life, they are expelled from the Garden of Eden, with Eve herself suffering imprecations, with her being subjected to additional agony during childbirth, as well as her subjecting to her husband Adam. — Wiki - Eve

To hell with this story :rage:
And the rotten, worm-infested fruit it still brings forth...
The idea that Woman=Sin. The opposite of 'Good'. The religious importance of birthing a child.
How dare women even think of abortion...they are still seen as being 'owned' by males.
And I'm not going to regurgitate the vile spewings of Musk.
How dare people want to know more? Knowledge is Power. Ignorance is bliss?
'A' for Art. We can create our own stories. Not be stifled by oppression.

Symbolism of the apple:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_(symbolism)

I don't know much about Dali but, like Eve, I want to know. A little:

Dali was both an art and science connoisseur. He held a particular fascination with the double helix, which appeared in many of his paintings, such as this painting - Landscape with Butterflies. Although the mere presence of DNA in Dali's paintings does not hold some deeper meaning, there was a logical reason that the helixes were included in this painting; Contrary to popular surrealism, the painting can be logically interpreted. — Dali paintings - Landscape with Butterflies

***

I changed my profile picture a lot of times. — javi2541997

Yes, along with a few others. I wonder why some people stick and others move on...
Anyway, I like your latest. And can't even remember what you had before!

I love apples and surrealism. — javi2541997

Your tomatoes will be jealous!
How do you interpret the painting?

For 6yrs I didn't see any reason to change it.
What did it matter? — Amity

Yes, I know it is not a big deal, but the profile picture is something curious. Some have a lot of birds on it (Jamal, T Clark, hypericin, etc.) And others have the same picture since I joined the first time (Benkei, creativesoul, Janus, etc.); and then, those who even show their real identity (Jack Cummins or Mikie). I wonder if we are recognised on TPF due to our profile pic or just our username. Hmm... :chin:

It's not just an apple, though, is it? A butterfly is emerging from it, or through it. From a chrysalis. — Amity

Exactly. Dali painted life and death in that apple. It is a very clever drawing. The worm and the apple; the first enters the second, and the progress of life goes on. The painting left me reflecting on some deep thoughts the first time I saw it.

Is this about Eve's plucking the forbidden fruit leading to knowledge? The Creation story in the Bible. — Amity

No, no. The Dali's apple is not Biblical, and I think he never painted something religious. The point was to be surrealist or even dreamy.

I wonder why some people stick and others move on... — Amity

I wonder exactly the same!

And can't even remember what you had before! — Amity

I had the cover of a Japanese film—called The Eel.

I wonder if we are recognised on TPF due to our profile pic or just our username. Hmm... :chin: — javi2541997

Both? I recognise your name, first and foremost. I don't really associate you with the pic.
However, it is easier to pick out posts - increased visibility an' all that.

But isn't it what we write, how we can be read/misread that is important. To make clear and question our thoughts - in different ways.
We are associated with the ideas/beliefs we express. The threads and people we respond to.
Even when we might change our minds, along with our profiles. Or not.
First impressions count, no? Hence, the careful, creative choice of a book cover. But you know, you can't always judge a book by its cover...

Thanks for explaining more about Dali. And being a bit of an inspiration :halo: :cool:

Not sure about the 'bird' thing... but does it matter?

the profile picture is something curious — javi2541997

And some people don't even give it a minute's thought...

You Can't Judge a Book by the Cover - Bo Diddley



You can't judge an apple by looking at a tree,
You can't judge honey by looking at the bee,
You can't judge a daughter by looking at the mother,
You can't judge a book by looking at the cover.

Oh can't you see,
Oh you misjudge me,
I look like a farmer,
But I'm a lover,
You can't judge a book by looking at the cover.
[...]
You can't judge a fish by lookin' in the pond,
You can't judge right from looking at the wrong,
You can't judge one by looking at the other,
You can't judge a book by looking at the cover.

But you know, you can't always judge a book by its cover... — Amity

Wholeheartedly. :cool:

Not sure about the 'bird' thing... but does it matter? — Amity

It doesn't matter; I agree. But it is very curious because it makes me wonder whether those members coincide in the bird thumbnail randomly or not.
Look! A thread was even started towards this 'thing' :lol: --

Why do so many people on here have bird thumbnails?

The spooky curiosity remains after three years. :smile:

The spooky curiosity remains after three years. — javi2541997

Wow! Another blast from the past :cool:

Now I have an apple painted by Dali — javi2541997

Are you sure this was painted by Dali? I clicked on WebSearch and found it here:
https://freshpics.blogspot.com/2007/12/surreal-art-of-vladimir-kush.html

Look at the signature bottom right. That doesn't seem to be Dali's. But Vladimir Kush, yes?

Although his style is frequently described as surrealist, Kush himself refers to it as "Metaphorical Realism" and cites the early influence on his style of Salvador Dalí's surrealist paintings as well as landscapes by the German romantic painter Caspar David Friedrich. — Wiki - Vladimir Kush

Wow! It is true that it might be Kush's signature. I didn't pay attention to that. You are probably right, because I tried to find the painting in the official Salvador Dali museum, and I couldn't find the apple.

Yet I found websites that refer to the green apple as Dali's.

http://my-photogalore.blogspot.com/2008/12/salvador-dali-paintings_9853.html?m=1

I think it is Dali-ish, but the real author is Kush. I am deeply sorry, because I misunderstood the original work of an artist with other's.

Well, I will keep the apple in the thumbnail, either it is painted by Kush and inspired by Dali. :smile:

Proof that is Kush's --

https://www.jacobgallery.com/vladimir-kush-green-apple

About Kush: His thoughts, writing and videos. Showing and telling his story. His Metaphorical Voyage:

Kush Fine Art - gallery of paintings (6 mins well spent!)
https://kushfineart.com/
The World in the Mirror of Metaphor
https://kushfineart.com/about/

THE ARTIST'S CREDO
To reflect the world in the mirror of the metaphor - this is the goal of the artist. Metaphor does not only belong to linguistic communication but can also be found in our daily life. Metaphor is the means of communication that we live by. First of all, the metaphor is aimed at the viewer's feelings and subconscious. It gives full rein to imagination, as it is the imagination that creates the connections between two seemingly different things. "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge has its limitations, while imagination has no limits." ~Albert Einstein. — About the Artist - Vladimir Kush

I tried to find the painting in the official Salvador Dali museum, and I couldn't find the apple. — javi2541997

Neither could I. That's what made me look further...curious as ever.

I am deeply sorry, because I misunderstood the original work of an artist with other's. Well, I will keep the apple in the thumbnail, either it is painted by Kush and inspired by Dali. — javi2541997

Please. Absolutely no need to apologise. It is easy to misunderstand, especially if others - like the blogger think the same. It stimulated thought and questions :fire:

What interests me. Was your interpretation influenced by the belief that it was Dali's?
And so, you viewed the 'insect' as a worm, instead of a chrysalis?
What we associate with a name or brand...see 'Apple', what do you think. The use of a symbol to 'sell'?

Thanks for the link. The painting as a symbol in itself. Showing the ripening of an artist's idea. Brilliant!
From: https://www.jacobgallery.com/vladimir-kush-green-apple

Before appearing in a new painting sparkling with wonderful colors, the ideas of an artist need a long time to ripen in mysterious depths of his subconsciousness. The life cycle of the butterfly could serve a symbol of this transforming a vague idea into the bright image. The ugly caterpillar changes into chrysalis to emerge finally as a beautiful butterfly. This phase of “chrysalis” hidden from man’s eyes invisibly exists in the picture. At this stage, the artist filters out false figures and finds his way. He gains strength and… take-off! The painter seems to feel the tips of his fingers transforming into brush, Salvador Dali says. Then the dormant torrents of self-expression suddenly awaken, and finally break through this chrysalis-skin filling the picture with their wings of color.

As viewers/readers we don't see the middle stage; the process from beginning to final product.
Also, writers can use silence, or gaps in the text itself, to give us a chance to use our Imagination. Not everything is shown or told. That's what makes a story 'work' for me.

I am so looking forward to the Literary Activity. Reading your story and those of others.
How varied the input...and output...hopefully, not all dark, despairing nightmares :smile: