We must look for other explanations for the Fermi paradox, for example, this one: extraterrestrial civilizations have erased their radio broadcasts and other evidence of their existence, because the knowledge of the very fact that extraterrestrial civilizations exist can harm us at current stage of our development. — Linkey
Small point: how many decades? SIx? Sixty years? Assuming the search has been efficient and effective for that long, that's a search radius of about 60 light-years. The radius of the Milky way is 50,000+ light years. Further, contact by signal to be acknowledged will take at least an equal time back. Thus given the distances, it's like looking for a needle in a very, very large haystack, and even if it turns out there a many needles, still, we have barely even begun.the same way we had been trying for decades now. — L'éléphant
I see. So, I'm inclined to conclude that, as members of this forum, we have not been paying attention to much of what were posted here.Small point: how many decades? SIx? Sixty years? Assuming the search has been efficient and effective for that long, that's a search radius of about 60 light-years. The radius of the Milky way is 50,000+ light years. Further, contact by signal to be acknowledged will take at least an equal time back. Thus given the distances, it's like looking for a needle in a very, very large haystack, and even if it turns out there a many needles, still, we have barely even begun. — tim wood
It could peek into the distant past of 13.7 B years. — L'éléphant
Ah, fair point. Their method of communication might be different. And yet, radioactivity is the universal language of the entire universe.If we do not know their method of communication, we might ever stumble upon the thousands of cold calls their insurance companies have been making to us. We might even have blocked them without knowing it. — Sir2u
Their method of communication might be different. And yet, radioactivity is the universal language of the entire universe. — L'éléphant
There are 118 known elements in the universe, 92 found on Earth. Apparently, if there undiscovered elements, our scientists could predict what they are. — L'éléphant
If aliens exist, they don't have much freedom as to what radioactivity they could emit -- they don't have the smorgasbord of elements to combine into their supersignal — L'éléphant
Edit: "Advanced" as we are? I don't know if I've given that impression -- but I had implied that if there signs of intelligent life, we have the technology to pick it up.You suppose, entirely without any base, that they are at least as advanced as we are. — Sir2u
Possibly.Since it is actually just about a hundred years ago that other galaxies were proven to exist, it might just be there are many more that they could not predict yet. — Sir2u
But we are referring to the same universe you and I exist in. That's what I meant when I said, there's not much signals except the radioactivity because the universe is made of those elements.At any rate, having this knowledge is in no way a guarantee that we have similar methods of communication. — Sir2u
I made up that name to make a point that if they are giving signals, the Hubble and JW telescope could trace them.And exactly what is their "supersignal" going to be like? And what would we need to do to receive it? — Sir2u
But we are referring to the same universe you and I exist in. That's what I meant when I said, there's not much signals except the radioactivity because the universe is made of those elements. — L'éléphant
Yes. Or maybe we have received their signals but our systems lack the sensitivity and/or bandwidth to distinguish those signals from the cosmic background noise (e.g. maybe they use neutrinos rather than EM waves). That would also filter us out as still too primitive (e.g. one of many Kardashev Level less-than-1 species) to reveal themselves to.The fact that we have not received any signals does not mean that they are not out there, it just means that we have not received signals. — Sir2u
Yes. Or maybe we have received their signals but our systems lack the sensitivity and/or bandwidth (maybe they use neutrinos rather than EM waves) to distinguish those signals from the cosmic background noise. — 180 Proof
They would still know of radio and remember their own days of listening to the skies with radio telescopes. It wouldn't take much to beam powerful radio signals to all the nearby habitable planets. — RogueAI
If they can communicate by fermion or neutrino, it would be trivial to send probes to nearby planets with biosignatures and keep an eye on them. — RogueAI
I think any space-faring species will be somewhat curious, and any species that has climbed on top of the evolutionary ladder is going to be somewhat concerned with self-preservation, so yes, they're going to want to know that their neighbors are up to and they're going to spend a fair amount of money to find out. — RogueAI
They won't send probes to another galaxy, but they would certainly investigate nearby planets with biosignatures. — RogueAI
My posts are predicated on the aliens you were talking about earlier: aliens who can communicate by fermions and neutrinos. If you're talking about aliens who aren't technologically advanced then obviously none of what I said applies. — RogueAI
Concepts of defense and self-preservation are going to be universal. — RogueAI
We must look for other explanations for the Fermi paradox, — Linkey
I might agree with self preservation if you agree that it means keeping yourself alive and reproducing. Defense implies there is something to protect from, what if their are no dangers where the super intelligent being live. Would the instinct still develop? — Sir2u
There are always dangers in this universe. Wandering black holes, gamma ray bursts, solar flares, and of course, a possible nearby alien civilization more powerful than oneself. — RogueAI
It is seeing whole galaxies, not planets, much less detecting radio waves coming from them.This is from Wayfarer's thread.
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/12247/james-webb-telescope/p1
It could peek into the distant past of 13.7 B years. — L'éléphant
No doubt. \\//_ :nerd:Are they overly influenced by watching science fiction? — Relativist
Are they overly influenced by watching science fiction? — Relativist
Faster than light travel and jumping through hyperspace are fantasy. — Relativist
And much SF makes the silly assumption life is ubiquitous, and that it would tend to produce beings anything like us. — Relativist
It's logically possible, just like it's logically possible we could work magic, or summon demons, if we just had the right incantation. There's really not much difference, when we start considering possibilities that contradict science that is as well established as relativity.No idea about that, but just because we don't understand it does not mean it is not possible. We did not even know there were other galaxies until a 100 years ago. — Sir2u
The best guess is that conditions need to be similar to earth's: goldilocks zone orbiting a star liquid water, heavy elements in sufficient abundance.How much life there is out there, I have no idea either. — Sir2u
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