I can't make any sense out of "thought is external" though.

I can't make any sense out of "thought is external" though. — Terrapin Station

You've said that you perceive external objects via your senses correct? At the same time you can also perceive internal aspects via your senses, true? I take it that thought has the same structure as the senses. You can also perceive internal aspects via thought, as well as external aspects - such as abstract properties of things, etc.

You've said that you perceive external objects via your senses correct? — Agustino

Correct.

At the same time you can also perceive internal aspects via your senses, true? — Agustino

No. That's just nonsensical and would show zero understanding of our senses and how they work.

I take it that thought has the same structure as the senses — Agustino

That would suggest zero understanding of material you were supposed to learn in elementary school.

No. That's just nonsensical and would show zero understanding of our senses and how they work. — Terrapin Station

How do you then perceive a stomach ache? Via your thoughts? :s

That would suggest zero understanding of material you were supposed to learn in elementary school. — Terrapin Station

:-}

How do you then perceive a stomach ache? Via your thoughts? :s — Agustino

You don't think that you touch, taste, smell, hear or see a stomach ache, do you?

You become aware of it via your nervous system.

You become aware of it via your nervous system. — Terrapin Station

Your nervous system is your sense of touch.

Your nervous system is your sense of touch. — Agustino

You must have really been confused in school.

You must have really been confused in school. — Terrapin Station

If you have a hand or foot paralysed, you cannot feel with it. Why not?

The answer certainly isn't that your tactile sense is identical to your nervous system. C'mon man. This is boring, because you're just playing stupid. (Again, hopefully it's playing.)

Asinus... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatosensory_system

The somatosensory system is a part of the sensory nervous system.

Could you stop playing stupid so that we could have a conversation?

Could you stop playing stupid so that we could have a conversation? — Terrapin Station

I'm playing stupid? You're the one who denies that the sense of touch is part and parcel of the nervous system.

Sense of touch deals with external objects; the nervous system extends throughout the inner body allowing us to feel pain such as stomachaches.

I'm playing stupid? — Agustino

Again, hopefully you're playing and it's not just that you're stupid.

Sense of touch deals with external objects; the nervous system extends throughout the inner body allowing us to feel pain such as stomachaches. — Thanatos Sand

Yes, but fundamentally they are one and the same, and it's important to realise this. The distinction is otherwise arbitrary. The five senses distinction is a bit arbitrary too, since we actually have a few more senses apart from the five mentioned usually - it's a pretty old distinction and not very up to date.

But for the purposes of the conversation, what's important to realise is that both the senses and thought can be directed towards both internal and external "objects".

Yes, but fundamentally they are one and the same, and it's important to realise this. The distinction is otherwise arbitrary. The five senses distinction is a bit arbitrary too, since we actually have a few more senses apart from the five mentioned usually - it's a pretty old distinction and not very up to date. — Agustino

Arguing that the distinctions should be other than they are is different than pretending that you can't even comprehend the standard view as such. So stop the games, the pretending to be a retard, and be straightforward with the argument for a different view (via an argument that would demonstrate that you understand elementary school material).

No, they are not one and the same since the nervous system includes internal and external sensations and the sense of touch only involves contact with external objects. Therefore, a stomachache is connected to our nervous system but not our sense of touch.

No, they are not one and the same since the nervous system includes internal and external sensations and the sense of touch only involves contact with external objects. — Thanatos Sand

Right - did you have a look at the Wiki article I posted? What is popularly known as the "sense of touch" is part of the nervous system of the body.

Yes, but a stomachache is not part of that part of the nervous system.

Yes, but a stomachache is not part of that part of the nervous system. — Thanatos Sand

No dispute here. However, traditionally the five senses are all our senses - so when I speak of the five senses, I speak with this connotation.

But for the purposes of the conversation, what's important to realise is that both the senses and thought can be directed towards both internal and external "objects". — Agustino

Terrapin disagrees with this. Do you agree, or disagree with this statement, and why?

Q: How many philosophers does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: They'd never be able to change it, no matter how many you have, because they'd pretend that they can't figure out what a bulb is, what light is, etc.

Q: How many philosophers does it take to change a light bulb?

A: They'd never be able to change it, no matter how many you have, because they'd pretend that they can't figure out what a bulb is, what light is, etc. — Terrapin Station

You might have finally said something true ;) But funnily enough you yourself pretend you can't understand what I'm trying to say, and hiding behind little distinctions.

You might have finally said something true ;) But funnily enough you yourself pretend you can't understand what I'm trying to say, and hiding behind little distinctions. — Agustino

I want you to have a conversation where you don't have to pretend to not understand the idea of the five senses as you were taught that in elementary school. You can have an interesting conversation without having to play those sorts of games.

No dispute here. However, traditionally the five senses are all our senses - so when I speak of the five senses, I speak with this connotation.

But the five senses do not include all our senses, since they don't include inner feeling.

But for the purposes of the conversation, what's important to realise is that both the senses and thought can be directed towards both internal and external "objects".
— Agustino
Terrapin disagrees with this. Do you agree, or disagree with this statement, and why?

I would agree that thought and our nervous system can be directed towards both internal and external objects. However, the five senses do not include inner feeling through the nervous system. So, the five senses cannot be directed towards internal objects like the nervous system can.

But the five senses do not include all our senses, since they don't include inner feeling. — Thanatos Sand

Sure - but you have to agree that the five senses are an old distinction which doesn't actually have much practical value today, since we have a lot more senses than just those. That's why I take the expression "five senses" to be a reference to all our senses, because in the past they were certainly thought to be all of our senses (although I agree this was wrong).

I would agree that thought and our nervous system can be directed towards both internal and external objects. However, the five senses do not include inner feeling through the nervous system. So, the five senses cannot be directed towards internal objects like the nervous system can. — Thanatos Sand

Right, that's good. It may awaken Terrapin from the games he likes to play with himself...

? He's agreeing with me, moron.

But for the purposes of the conversation, what's important to realise is that both the senses and thought can be directed towards both internal and external "objects". — me

Terrapin disagrees with this. Do you agree, or disagree with this statement, and why? — me

I would agree that thought and our nervous system can be directed towards both internal and external objects. However, the five senses do not include inner feeling through the nervous system. So, the five senses cannot be directed towards internal objects like the nervous system can. — Thanatos Sand

the five senses do not include all our senses — Thanatos Sand

Are you stupid Terrapin? You're again pretending you don't understand the point. You were wrong that senses cannot be directed towards internal objects, they can. Just like thought can be.

Seriously it takes 2 pages to get you to agree to a simple truth.... That's why this discussion is moving so slowly.

However, the five senses do not include inner feeling through the nervous system. — Thanatos Sand

I agree--and so should you if you were able to get through elementary school.

Ease up, I never denied those facts...:)