"being honest" is a verb. You can make just about any adjective into a verb in a similar way. "Being friendly". "Being angry". "Being green".

You can behave honestly. You can tell the truth. You can be trustworthy.

Being honest is not a verb. It is a phrase, where being is the verb and honest is the adjective.

And others...

I doubt the OP is asking about English grammar.

Rather, she is asking of this something, "honesty"

* Is it fundamentally a thing? Something you literally possess, like you possess objects?
* Is it fundamentally an action? Something you do, or don't do?
* Is it fundamentally a quality? Which an agent may or may not possess?

The grammar is not important. English accommodates all three modes. Though perhaps it is telling that the root "honest" is an adjective, that is to say a quality. But it is probably an error to read too much into that.

I doubt the OP is asking about English grammar. — hypericin

I am pretty sure I caught that. Hence me not assuming ignorance. I interpreted it as Action versus Innate Qualities or some such thing.

If honest is an adj, is it like tall and short, something we are largely born with, or is it like rich, something we can gain and lose?

Your google-sourced sources are... weak. What do you think of the wiki?

Disagree.

Supports my contentions

You disagree, and think that offhand comments in a rando student essay and an open source British high school textbook are strong sources? Or that they are strong because they support your contentions? Or that the wiki supports your contentions? How so?

They comport with all I’ve read about deontological principles from Bentham on? Idk man.

Because it posits a system in which lying is violating a duty. Which supports my contention.

That said; I don’t care. I’ve never seen any deontological writing invite dishonesty for any reason than paradox.

If honest is an adj, is it like tall and short, something we are largely born with, or is it like rich, something we can gain and lose? — YiRu Li

"Honesty" is part of a person's character; we practice honesty. It's an optional behavior, not something we are born with.

Where does it come from?

We learn to be honest; we learn to be dishonest. Proper, moral behavior is taught to children, perhaps explicitly, but perhaps more implicitly, Guilt is an essential part of moral learning; we feel guilt when we fail to behave properly. For children, right and wrong, proper and improper, moral and immoral tend tp be more black and white. As the child grows up, black and white become shades of gray.

"I can not tell a lie; I chopped down the cherry tree." George Washington said, in the fable about the first president of the U.S. Maybe little George couldn't, but but the time he was an adult, big George was as capable of lying as anyone else.

A minimal level of honesty is required. "We can't do business if people are not honest." I can't quantify "how much" is necessary. Certainly, we need to be honest with ourselves -- we need to be aware of when we are lying and when we are telling the truth.

If honest is an adj, is it like tall and short, something we are largely born with, or is it like rich, something we can gain and lose?

It is a behavior profile that typically flows from one's psychological outlook. Thus CAN definitely change (along with one's psychology) though most don't change much.

In my experience the mindset most conducive to honesty is self confidence, since lying is frequently deployed to cover for the psychological inability to acknowledge personal shortcomings.

Can honesty be considered a culmination of a particular mindset? — YiRu Li

I still don't know what you mean by mindset. Do you mean worldview or value system?

YiRuLi , welcome.

If born too tall or short, does it cause a fear of standing out, I.e. of a secondarily derived cause that could affectively bar a deontological formative background: as an example of a window of opportunity to change the emphasis by verbal manipulation?

Maybe we can refer to the person that said "confidence". According to him, "confidence" is a mindset that leads to honesty. Is this correct? Is there one particular mindset that leads to honesty?

No - my question is what is a mindset? How are you using this word? Is it personality or worldview or a habitual disposition?

I think the mindset is including all of you mentioned: personality or worldview or a habitual disposition or value system.

Though perhaps it is telling that the root "honest" is an adjective, that is to say a quality. But it is probably an error to read too much into that. — hypericin

How can you read too much into it? That's the whole point: honesty is a quality. "Honest" describes both a facet of someone's character (the way they are) and the way in which they behave.
Honesting is not something one can do: one can tell the truth, give fair measure for the price, refrain from coveting another's ass or ox or manservant or maidservant, be faithful in marriage, keep one's promises, return borrowed tools, give accurate and unbiased testimony, etc.

If honest is an adj, is it like tall and short, something we are largely born with, or is it like rich, something we can gain and lose? — YiRu Li

Adjectives can describe both of those conditions, plus several others: matters of taste, like sexy or ugly; matters of happenstance, like sick or lucky; ephemeral matters, like rushed or startled; transient matters, like interested and disappointed.

People are born with a genetic predisposition: potentials, capacities and tendencies. Whether they develop into specific character traits depends on many factors in the environment and in the social influences to which the individual is exposed.

Ok. So your question is what makes some people behave honestly? We could also ask what you mean by ‘honest’ but maybe we’ve got enough. My tentative answer is that people are shaped by their experiences. The use and value of honesty in someone’s life will be largely based upon socialisation, enculturation and external factors. I also think that what looks like dishonesty may not be intentionally deceptive - it may simply reflect a person’s different perspective.

Tom Storm
Vera Mottt
YiRu Li


Therefore affect(affectation) may trump an effective way to determine an honest ‘mindset, regardless of the meaning ascribed to it., therefore it’s uncertain to evaluate it on basis of a prima facie contension

Can you reframe what you said in more direct language?

I'd think honesty is also a natural final product of some mindsets, from the inside? We may live in a life with all white lies but we don't even realize it. We may not always get punished by dishonesty. When we choose to be honest, it may not be because of the outside world.

When we choose to be honest, it may not be because of the outside world. — YiRu Li

I find it quite hard to understand how one could have a 'conclusion' such that it results in behaviour, which is not a direct result of external.. everything...

Can you elaborate on how one might come to that sense of honesty without an external guiding/enforcing mechanism?

I'd think honesty is also a natural final product of some mindsets, from the inside — YiRu Li

I did not say there was no contribution from the individual only that people are a product of their environment. I have worked with a lot of prisoners and career criminals over the years. In getting to know them, I can't think of one example where the person wasn't a product of disadvantage, abuse or trauma.

I have worked with a lot of prisoners and career criminals over the years. In getting to know them, I can't think of one example where the person wasn't a product of disadvantage, abuse or trauma — Tom Storm

I certainly can - some people are just misguided in their emotional reactivity; this is the sense of 'misguided' or 'misfiring' emotions. Thinking you've had a disadvantage and behaving just so doesn't mean that actually happened. But this doesn't defeat your point - it's an anomaly and for the vast majority of people they never even survey their internal maps so it's hard to put much at their feet.

I certainly can - some people are just misguided in their emotional reactivity; this is the sense of 'misguided' or 'misfiring' emotions — AmadeusD

Maybe - although I'm not sure what emotional reactivity is - if you are referring to difficulties with emotional regulation, that is generally the result of trauma or brain injury.

Thinking you've had a disadvantage and behaving just so doesn't mean that actually happened. — AmadeusD

Interesting. If your interpretation of my words are that some people justify their behavior (or lack of virtue) on the basis of fictional backgrounds - I probably don't accept this. Not much further we can go with this since we probably hold different presuppositions.

But we were talking about dishonesty rather than emotional regulation and violence.

Maybe - although I'm not sure what emotional reactivity is - if you are referring to difficulties with emotional regulation, that is generally the result of trauma or brain injury. — Tom Storm

The emotion arising from a perception. The reaction to an event in emotional terms.

Interesting. If your interpretation of my words are that some people justify their behavior (or lack of virtue) on the basis of fictional backgrounds - I don't accept this. — Tom Storm

No. I am telling you that i, myself observe this among criminals (particularly career criminals). It is not uncommon for an underlying attitude of aggrievement with no basis in reality to motivate a continuing disrespect for the law and courts. A perceived slight from the 'state' can do this, for instance. And I don't think anything i said inferred fictional. Up front, I noted misfiring or misplaced emotions. The subject may believe their plight is actual, when it is not, and react accordingly. Unfortunately, the legal system will
act accordingly to the 'actual'.

But we were talking about dishonesty rather than emotional regulation and violence. — Tom Storm

My comment was regarding motivations for dishonesty. I don't think i mentioned violence?

Up front, I noted misfiring or misplaced emotions. The subject may believe their plight is actual, when it is not, and react accordingly. — AmadeusD

My suspicion is is you dig far enough such a reaction is likely to be a consequence of a personality disorder which will itself be the product of significant shortcomings/adverse experiences in a person's upbringing. Being easily slighted is a classic symptom.

My comment was regarding motivations for dishonesty. I don't think i mentioned violence? — AmadeusD

Ok.

My suspicion is is you dig far enough such a reaction may be a consequence of a personality disorder which will itself be the product of significant shortcomings/adverse experiences in a person's upbringing. Being easily slighted is a classic symptom. — Tom Storm

(this may be for a nother thread, but I like this line, so....)

Hmm, a fair suggestion, but I am actually noting that your supporting features are those to what my concept applies. I suppose it would be helpful to know what your context is; but without that in hand I'd say there's going to be a big divide between how I, as a legal mind, would interpret and dig through claims, than would a social worker looking to rehabilitate. It is in their interests to buy into the subjects story. It is not in mine as i am victim-oriented; I want the facts as far as they can be established.

As an example, i regularly, though not frequently, come across offenders who claim in their, what's called a s 27 report here in NZ, that they suffered familial violence or abuse. In these regular, but not frequent cases, it becomes quite obvious that actually what happened was their parents were perhaps restrictive in a way they didn't like - so from a young age, they formed a ridiculous and misplaced view of their family and reacted as if that was a fact. I'm unsure this is controversial. The failure rates of rehabilitative efforts seems to comport with this general theme.

(this may be for another thread, but I like this line, so....) — AmadeusD

Maybe but these sorts of thread can become quite poisonous and political.

It is in their interests to buy into the subjects story. It is not in mine as i am victim-oriented; I want the facts as far as they can be established. — AmadeusD

I suspect that this is unhelpful language or framing as it leads with the very popular media cliché that the helping professions are soft and subject to bullshit. That may be true on occasion, but no doubt there are similar popular tropes that can be applied to lawyers and they wouldn't be helpful either.

I have no issue putting people in jail if they are a danger to community. I also side with victims.

My background is 33 years in the field working in addictions, homelessness and suicide prevention with vulnerable communities - I currently manage psychosocial programs and support services for a large community organization with a hospital psychiatry partnership.