No.Do you agree with my prediction? — Judaka
The situation with slavery shows that even though it is officially condemned, new forms of slavery are springing up all the same, perhaps even more pernicious, more insidious than the traditional forms. — baker
Well, if we make a simple extrapolation from the present how now "woke" society condemns history, It may be possible for these kind of attitudes will come more frequent.I don't know when it will happen, but I'm fairly confident that, at some point, the tides will turn against the meat industry in the same way they did for slavery. — Judaka
The only way I see it that simply fabricated food, grown from cells etc., will become so cheap that animal husbandry simply can't compete with the new genetical produced lab meat. Then it can happen. — ssu
Who better to promote the "animal meat is murder" than the industry manufacturing non-animal non-sentient "lab meat" at a cheap cost in huge industrial size "laboratories"? — ssu
No.
Morality is not the driver of things, nor does it evolve on it's own/following it's own logic. Rather, morality is a by-product of, or is at least enabled by, other non-moral processes. — ChatteringMonkey
Do you agree with my prediction? If you do, to what extent can previous moral developments be attributed to economic and technological changes? — Judaka
Yeah, once lab meat costs one tenth of the meat traditionally produced by animal husbandry, you know what you will be eating in a BigMac at McDonalds.Right, I'm more-or-less making the same case as this, that seeing this sort of possibility on the horizon is the pre-requisite for condemning the meat industry as it exists today. — Judaka
Do you agree with my prediction? If you do, to what extent can previous moral developments be attributed to economic and technological changes? — Judaka
I'm not seeing any reason why reindeer herding would stop for some reason. Human species is an omnivore and not a vegan. And just like reindeer herding, animal husbandry something that we can do quite ecologically (as 1000 years of reindeer herding shows). — ssu
Our ancestors ate huge amounts of meat. — frank
Before the last century, few people anywhere in the world were rich enough to have meat every day and in primitive times, they had to catch it first - when they failed, they had to go without; when they succeeded, they had to preserve some for leaner seasons.Overall meat consumption has continued to rise in the U.S., European Union, and developed world.
For fruits and roots; in modern times, for processed foods containing lots of sugar. Meat doesn't have any carbohydrates.It's speculated that the human brain, which is a large obligate glucose consumer, drove the human appetite. — frank
How on Earth would it be so? The world has very few native wild herbivore compared to domesticated animals. And above all, why would you need reindeer for everyone???As there are not enough reindeer for everyone, I suppose all the native wild herbivores of every continent will have to be domesticated, herded and eaten. — Vera Mont
Many find the industrial scale distasteful. Yet I think it's also more about the fact that people simply have lost the connection to animal husbandry as fewer and fewer people are living on a farm with animals. Urbanized people simply don't have the way to live off the land. Everything you eat you buy. And that's a problem: many don't go a pick berries or mushrooms, fewer go fishing or hunt.Some people might still find the process distasteful. — Vera Mont
Because everyone needs nourishment. Reindeer probably would do quite poorly in Africa. Those people will have to make do with wildebeest and zebras. I already mentioned native North American wildlife that could substitute. Don't know what the Asians and South Americans will eat. Australia's all right for kangaroos. That's if all those populations follow your advice.And above all, why would you need reindeer for everyone??? — ssu
This is true. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/urban-vs-rural-majorityUrbanized people simply don't have the way to live off the land. — ssu
Bread allowed us to get away from meat, yes. Archeological finds tell us that pre-agriculture hominins were heavily dependent on meat. — frank
Food items are differentially preserved at archaeological sites: archaeologists were once misled into believing that early humans relied heavily on meat foods, because bones, the remains of edible animals, survive far better than the remains of plant foods.
Meat doesn't have any carbohydrates. — Vera Mont
Of course it does. It's in the fat. — frank
Yeah, once lab meat costs one tenth of the meat traditionally produced by animal husbandry, you know what you will be eating in a BigMac at McDonalds. — ssu
And what I fear are health problems of what use of lab meat will have. — ssu
I'm not seeing any reason why reindeer herding would stop for some reason. Human species is an omnivore and not a vegan. And just like reindeer herding, animal husbandry something that we can do quite ecologically (as 1000 years of reindeer herding shows). — ssu
100%. — Vera Mont
It won't be driven primarily by moral consideration, though that is an ever-present factor, but by aesthetic sensibility: killing is messy; preparing meat is icky. — Vera Mont
That is by no means an inconsequential factor in social evolution. — Vera Mont
On meat, fish, nuts, berries, tubers, fungi and leaves. Whatever they could get. That's never been a huge amount for the majority of people; nor is it now. — Vera Mont
That's easily checked https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/fdc-app.html#/food-details/172345/nutrients — Vera Mont
Not according to scientists. "Ethnographic comparisons with contemporary groups of Hunter Gatherers broadly imply a high reliance on animal protein supplemented with a wide range of available plant foods." -- here. — frank
No quantity or proportion specified.V Larger brain sizes required a greater caloric intake.[better source needed] In colder climates meat might be necessary due to the decreased availability of plant based foods, and in hotter tropical climates a wider range of plants would be available.[3]
The fact that whole species of megafauna disappeared when humans showed up in North America and Australia suggests that humans were apex predators. — frank
Our bodies break fats down into a simple carbohydrate: glucose. — frank
Especially cultured meat, since its fat content can be readily regulated. It also eliminates the risk of parasites (prevalent in game), chemical contamination (such as antibiotics and pesticides in farmed meat) and contagious disease.I'd guess that greater accessibility to meat would help reduce the obesity epidemic, no? — Judaka
It's interesting that you try to separate the two. Do you think the ending of slavery was primarily driven by moral considerations or aesthetic sensibilities? If we're comparing just these two factors. — Judaka
No, actually it comes down to my example of why reindeer meat is so far much healthier having less fat and many vitamins etc. than any domesticated animal: it eats 350 different plants and roams free basically all it's life in the wilderness. Just ask yourself: do any farm animals get 350 different plants to eat and get the physical exercise that reindeer gets roaming the forests and tundra? No, absolutely not. With lab meat this is even more obvious as the chemist has to add every ingredient to the lab meat. Great! There might not be any toxins, so yes, it's not going to be dangerous, but simply the present knowledge of how things are healthy is limited.My understanding was that it would be less risky health-wise to eat meat from a lab, but it seems like you're mostly referring to the problem of obesity, is that right? — Judaka
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.