• LD Saunders
    314
    In looking at the internet this morning, I noticed that in addition to a pipe bomb having been mailed to George Soros, pipe bombs were also mailed to Obama, the Clintons, and CNN. I also noticed that the vice president had condemned the attacks against the Clintons and Obama, but left out Soros and CNN, although perhaps he actually did condemn all of the attacks, and this was simply an oversight in the single article I read. Noticeably absent, however, was any incendiary comment on twitter from the president himself. This is the same president who does not hesitate to immediately condemn acts he disagrees with, even in the early morning hours when most people are asleep.

    Will Trump condemn the attacks? I highly doubt he will condemn the attack against George Soros, as Soros is dehumanized and lied about constantly by the very white supremacist base Trump relies upon. I'm not even sure if he will condemn the attacks against Obama and the Clintons, or CNN.

    What are we to make of this? Considering Trump's vocal pronouncements against celebrities for merely saying something he dislikes, if Trump fails to condemn these attacks, he is condoning them. His white-supremacist supporters who chant "fake news" at his rallies will certainly take his refusal to condemn the attacks as support for them. It's not as if Trump has not repeatedly encouraged his followers to engage in violence, as well as promoted conspiracy theories against Soros, Obama and the Clintons.

    When Trump lies and promotes hatred and violence against Soros, Obama, the Clintons, and CNN, then he is morally responsible for these attacks. He may not have sent the bombs, he may not have specifically told anyone to send them, but, he damn well lit the fuse of paranoid, delusional hatred against these targets. And by not speaking out, he's making matters worse. After all, a president who tells a crowd he loves a politician who body slammed a reporter is certainly a president who will rejoice at having a pipe bomb sent to CNN ---- the "fake news" agency that is only "fake" because it states things Trump does not approve of.
  • tim wood
    2.7k
    Your error is in assuming that Trump has any moral anything. Everyone seems to make that mistake. Because he falls into the class "person," however marginally, he is not simply disposed of, and it's an article of faith with me that's ultimately for the best. Here's an exercise: try to think of an animal you could compare to Trump, that would not be an insult to the character of the animal. Weasel, scorpion, snake, other reptile? That's the thing with disgusting people: it's hard to deal with them because it's hard to come to grips with how bad they really are.
  • LD Saunders
    314
    @Tim Wood: I do think that Trump has a moral sense, if someone accepts pure egoism as morality. I personally don't, but some philosophers do. I think we shall hear him, over the next several days, make contradictory remarks, just like he did after the white-supremacist rally in Virginia, where sometimes he'll condemn the attempted bombing attacks and at other times he will signal he approves of them. I also don't think he'll ever condemn the attack against Soros, especially since just days ago, he was making up conspiracy nonsense against Soros.

    When our own president starts to condone violence, then this could be the beginning of the end of our liberal democracy. It does concern me; a great deal. Two former presidents were attacked, a former secretary of state, a major news network and a philanthropist. Even if someone sent a pipe bomb to a person like David Duke, I'd be offended. Freedom of speech means freedom of speech, not that one gets murdered for saying something people don't like, even when it's offensive racist garbage by David Duke.
  • Baden
    8k

    Trump has now condemned the pipe bombs. I doubt that took much moral courage, and I doubt it means much. Being an empty know-nothing full of unfiltered stupidity and a huge platform from which to propagate it to his fanbase of similar ignoramuses who see their own vices magnified and rewarded in him and worship him for that, he will continue to say enough random stuff on every issue to cover just about every base that needs covering. And so on it goes and will go... Meh.

    Your error is in assuming that Trump has any moral anything.tim wood

    His lack of morality is nothing new in politics. His open disdain for morality is. At least we all know where he stands. I.e. everywhere and nowhere.
  • Wayfarer
    7.7k
    This is what he had to say:

    Those engaged in the political arena must stop treating political opponents as being morally defective. The language of moral condemnation and destructive routines, these are arguments and disagreements that have to stop.
    ...
    The media also has a responsibility to set a civil tone and to stop the endless hostilities and constant negative and oftentimes false attacks and stories,
    — Donald Trump

    This is despite the fact that just prior to his appearance, crowds of supporters continued to chant 'Lock Her Up', in reference to Hillary Clinton; the fact that he claims Democrats are behind the so-called 'migrant caravan' without any supporting evidence; his enthusiastic endorsement of a Republican congressman who pleaded guilty to assaulting a reporter; and his routine derision of any and all criticisms as purveyors of 'fake news', or of being dishonest, or corrupt, or both (Low IQ [Maxine Waters]," "Cryin' Chuck [Schumer]" and "Lyin' Ted [Cruz].")

    Of course, in Trump's mind, there is no hypocrisy or conflict in any of this; as always, he only ever sees what he wants to see, and is faithfully supported by those who want to believe it.
  • LD Saunders
    314
    It seems that I am not alone in how I feel about what is going on in America these days. That's good to know.
  • Wayfarer
    7.7k
    You’re probably in the majority. At some stage in 2017, the percentage of Americans who believed Trump ought to be impeached was higher than the percentage that approved of him. Even now his approval ratings are bad. But it’s just that the so-called ‘core supporters’ are holding firm, and opposition is fragmented. That’s why it’s so important that democrat supporters vote. (I’m in Australia but have immediate family in the US. Overall Trump is viewed very poorly in Australia.)
  • Bitter Crank
    7.9k
    It is always important to keep things in perspective. Bad things have been happening in the United States for a long time. Fifteen presidents or former presidents have been shot; 4 didn't survive. We had a vicious civil war. We've had all sorts of violent vigilante groups like the KKK come and go. We've had lynchings. We've had mass murders. We've had several morally compromised presidents. We've had disgraceful business affairs. The list goes on and on. None of these came close to sinking the ship of state (save the Civil War).

    Trump is very bad, and bad things are certainly happening in America. There is a long list of things going on that I don't like. You seem to feel this way too. What to do?

    Engage in politics: send money; vote; support groups that are doing good things; do what you can on a local level (because that's where you are, and that's where you can do something). Be vocal about criticizing Trump, and the swine that are running along side him.

    Pray for Mitch McConnell's brain aneurysm to burst (he doesn't have to die, just become severely aphasic -- no language capacity at all). He's as big a threat to the country as Trump. While you're at it, there's several hundred people in Washington who could benefit the country by losing their capacity to use language. Add the Koch Brothers to your prayer list. (God is busy, so... keep the list reasonably short -- less than 500.)
  • frank
    2.8k
    Engage in politics:Bitter Crank

    I really don't feel like it. There's not enough "winner" to my personality right now. Why put the energy forward when I'm just going to lose again? And who cares anyway? The tax cuts are already on the books. The trade war is already in full swing. The Supreme Court is already leaning right. I'll just stay home and let the world be what it wants to be.
  • LD Saunders
    314
    So, here we go. Trump is now blaming the so-called "fake news," which is merely news that criticizes Trump, for all of the recent bomb attacks. Never mind the fact every victim of these attacks has been a person that Trump himself has said hateful things about. Never mind the fact that Trump continues to support violence at his rallies. Never mind the fact that no main-stream media network has ever advocated for violence against anyone. Trump is not apologetic at all, and by blaming the main-stream media, the branches of the media that do not adopt Trump's lies and distortions and twisting of reality itself, Trump is condoning the violence.
  • LD Saunders
    314
    Bitter Crank: You are right that the USA has been through a lot, and we have had conspiracy-theorists for presidents before, as well as racist and anti-Semitic presidents before, as well as presidents who ignore basic economics in favor of nationalistic policies. However, something the USA has never faced before is the rise of social media where now millions of people get manipulated by algorithms run by companies like Facebook and Google. Something like a third of Americans now support an authoritarian government, and I think the same is true for Germany, while Britain and France have half their populations in favor of some form of authoritarianism. I think in the USA something like half of the younger generation supports authoritarianism. I don't think this is a coincidence that the rise of social media correlates with the rise in authoritarianism movements in the west. Social media is a sewer-fest of ignorance and hate.
  • Kippo
    131
    I think the media, including the entertaiment media, have acted as a positive moral influence in terms of the rights' movements. It has championed and then normalised previously marginalised or oppressed groups of people. Trump is a master of normalising immoral behaviour - he knows that dragging the goalposts works and the media may not be strong enough to stop him. It seems like he understands a few human biases and then does them to death.
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