They don’t jump off bridges because that kinda hurts, a lot! So despite there being no meaning they carry on existing plus they don’t wanna piss of their boss by not existing. The tax collector wouldn’t be too happy either.

So I guess the obligation to family wife kids so working and keeping busy to everyday commitments they forget that they’re nihilists.

Keep existing Nihilists I say…at least they’re not as miserable as the antinatalists

Keep existing Nihilists I say…at least they’re not as miserable as the antinatalists — invicta

Hey now!

Well, to judge from the wikipedia page, it can mean a lot of things!

I like existential nihilism. A possible answer from that perspective to your questions:

I take it most nihilists believe that nothing means anything? — TiredThinker

In the sense of some kind of intrinsic meaning to life then yup. For some "intrinsic" does too much work though. It feels like a slight of hand.

The existential nihilist would say there's meaning in life, but its origin is with you. There's no true answer to these questions, it's the answer which brings meaning to you.

If nothing has any meaning why aren't more nihilists jumping off bridges and what not?

I like pleasure, and that's not pleasurable.

Where do nihilists believe meaning comes from if it were to be legitimate?

From the person asking the question "What is the meaning of life?" -- no one can answer it other than the person asking the question.

So all meaning must be derived from ones own mind, and one can still seek pleasure as a nihilist even if pleasure, pain, numbness, oblivion, are all basically the same to them beyond biological preferences?

I guess to a lemon the concept of lemonade is meaningless

FWIW: My bias is absurdist, not 'nihilist' or 'existentialist'. :cool:

I take it most nihilists believe that nothing means anything? — TiredThinker

Nihilism seems to denote that "meaning" is arbitrary, unneeded or ultimately meaningless; this implies that all beliefs and principles, even truthes, are illusions. Thus, nihilists believe "nothing matters"; however, then 'the belief "nothing matters"' itself also doesn't matter. :smirk:

If nothing has any meaning why aren't more nihilists jumping off bridges and what not?

I suspect nihilists usually rationalize that "jumping off bridges" is just as meaningless as not "jumping off bridges".

Where do nihilists believe meaning comes from if it were to be legitimate?

Make believe (i.e. wishful thinking). Or "God" (i.e. magical thinking).

I take it most nihilists believe that nothing means anything? If nothing has any meaning why aren't more nihilists jumping off bridges and what not?

Where do nihilists believe meaning comes from if it were to be legitimate? — TiredThinker

There's a crowd of self-proclaimed nihilists on reddit. The loudest ones are fairly plaintiff and anti-natalist. The rest are so-called "positive nihilists", such as myself. It usually comes down to what aspects of life transfix you and so forth.

The answer to the second question is basically, no where. There is no meaning. This is harshest in regard to things like the Holocaust. There's supposed to be some sort of redemption in meaning, I think. Without that, it's just abysmal and oh well.

There's a weighty psychological and emotional side to it. Some just aren't going to go in that direction because they don't have the constitution for it. Some can't avoid it for various reasons.

I suspect nihilists usually rationalize that "jumping off bridges" is just as meaningless as not "jumping off bridges". — 180 Proof

:rofl:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buridan's_ass

The answer to the second question is basically, no where. There is no meaning. This is harshest in regard to things like the Holocaust. There's supposed to be some sort of redemption in meaning, I think. Without that, it's just abysmal and oh well. — frank

But what about the heroism that ultimately saved the surviving folk ? Don’t you see any nobility in that?

That gives meaning, despite the tyranny of evil men.

Something worth living for.

Something worth fighting for.

But what about the heroism that ultimately saved the surviving folk ? Don’t you see any nobility in that?

That gives meaning, despite the tyranny of evil man.

Something worth living for.

Something worth fighting for. — invicta

If you say so.

You don’t believe in heroes then ? They’re not just in movies you know.

I'm a frontline healthcare worker, so I still see the posters left from the pandemic that say "heroes wear scrubs." I don't know what that's supposed to mean, though. I was just doing my job.

What does it mean to you?

So all meaning must be derived from ones own mind, — TiredThinker

Is it derived from one's own mind? I'm not so sure. There are, for instance, existential Christians. From what I said before, since there is no true answer to "What is the meaning of life?", one answer to the question would be the Christian way of life, and there are Christians who think like that -- at least if I believe conversations I've had. (EDIT: Which would mean, for them, meaning is not derived from their mind, but God -- just with the acknowledgment that this is not really a true belief as much as a meaningful belief)

and one can still seek pleasure as a nihilist even if pleasure, pain, numbness, oblivion, are all basically the same to them beyond biological preferences?

One can -- do anything. I thought about earlier saying I'd prefer to substituted "ones own actions" for "ones own mind" in your question above.

I think that the existential emphasis, at least, would be on what you do. That's what brings you meaning. (until it doesn't.... but only you could really say if that's the case)

https://1000wordphilosophy.com/2023/02/06/meaning-of-life/

This was an interesting summary of the meaning of life in general. I still worry that only after we exit life can we know what its meaning was assuming we still exist to observe and analyze what happened in life.

For me, nihilism is the idea that there is no objective meaning, and that meaning is asserted by sentient beings such as humans. I would say there is no meaning to life, but I have no problem with the idea that someone could invent a reason for living.

I would disagree that nihilism is implicitly depressing. I personally don't feel even remotely downbeat about the absence of objective meaning. I'd argue the difference comes down to how one evaluates the value or weight that an individual's assertion of meaning has.

I could understand someone feeling depressed by the idea that nothing has any "real" meaning, but for me, individually asserted meaning is plenty real and has a lot of weight. Therefore, I really couldn't care less about the lack of objective meaning, I think "objective meaning" is a nonsensical concept, so, it's not something I even spend time thinking about.

Nicely put.

Well maybe meaning can never be truly objective as everything object oriented will always be filtered through our mind, but it really would be nice to have a purpose so I don't leave this world not knowing if I fell short. I am not satisfied living for dopamine.

Nihilism is basically 'nothing matters' - which is close in meaning to 'nothing is real' or 'it doesn't make any difference what you do'. It doesn't have to be dramatic or colorful. It could be a shrug, a 'whatever', a 'so what?'

For me, nihilism is the idea that there is no objective meaning, and that meaning is asserted by sentient beings such as humans. — Judaka

That's more relativism than nihilism. Nihilism would be closer to: the meaning you assert is meaningless. Relativism is essentially egological - not egocentric, but arising from the perspective that the individual ego and/or their cultural identity is the only arbiter and source of meaning.

I'd question the relevance of 'objectivity' in this context. The point about the sense of meaning that anchored traditional worldviews was not so much 'objective' as 'transcendent', because it was said to make a difference, not only in this life, but in the life hereafter. In the absence of any hereafter, then the only kind of transcendence that makes sense is living on in your works and progeny. Which is not nothing, but also not quite the same.

One of the books that comes to mind in this respect is Victor Frankl's Mankind's Search for Meaning. It was a classic in the post-war years and sold millions of copies. It drew on his experiences in the Nazi death camps and his observation that those possessed of a sense of meaning invariably did better than those without. He became a famous psychotherapist in New York after the war. devising what he called Logotherapy, a form of psychotherapy that is focused the ability to endure hardship and suffering through a search for purpose.

I personally feel having a sense of meaning and/or purpose is an essential pre-requisite for a happy existence, the absence of it easily gives rise to ennui or a sense of futility.

The physical world is utterly meaningless, this is the proper non-psychological understanding of a reality, and not the psychological consequences thereof. Biology is the measure and meaning of all things, in other words there are meanings only for conscious biological subjects and in the absence of a conscious subject there is nothing whatsoever. We come to know an apparent reality through our bodies as Spinoza kindly told us, the alterations made to our bodies from the surrounding energies are for us experience/knowledge and meanings but only for us, for it is a song/melody that the energies play upon us and only we hear that melody, the melody of apparent reality. We know not if there are other conscious energy forms out there also listening to the melodies/ apparent realities that are played upon them, there could be; a legion of conscious energies forms out there, all with their private realities.

but it really would be nice to have a purpose so I don't leave this world not knowing if I fell short. — TiredThinker

You made it this far. That's pretty good!

You undoubtedly have made a positive impact on someone's life. And that's enough!

I like to think of existential nihilism in conjunction with Epicureanism, specifically Lucretius -- acknowledging that the truths of Epicurus sound harsh to someone unused to them he wrote a poem to attempt to lighten to blow.

So I might say the lighter side of existential nihilism is that everyone is significant and meaningful. That's part of why it's hard to say there's a true meaning to life. If there were, then someone who is significant would be wrong -- and it seems to be working for them, so what could we possibly mean by that, given our own inability to know the truth on such things?

Biological consciousness is the source of all meaning, it is the measure and meaning of all things, as surely as you are at the center of your own being/universe.

What does that mean ?

It means that organisms, biological consciousness, is the only source of meanings and meanings are the effect/alteration energies make upon the body. It is thus experience is knowledge and meaning. If these experiences were thought of as a melody, it would be a melody only the individual hears.

Would that melody have meaning to another biological entity?

Nihilists reject some general aspect of human existence, such as knowledge, meaning or morality.

As a species we share a common biology so as long as we are talking about normal healthy specimens the experience/the melody should be one commonly heard. This meaning would be individually experienced and yet in common with species.

You use funny terminology species, biological consciousness as if you are not part of such a species but in fact have transcended it.

Correct ?

Why are you unfamiliar with these terms? They are not my personal creations.

For the sake of future expediency shorten the following terms:

Biological Consciousness = Mind
Specimens = Mankind

This will enable you to spread your thoughts with much speed.

Keep the “thus” as it will make them sound that little bit more profound.