For me, both the deliberate forcing of new ways of speaking and writing, and also the attempts to protect the language—which means to prevent change—are equally suspect.

the attempt of using a X or E instead of gender using is (at the moment) a Hispanic issue. I wish it doesn't spread to other languages or lexicons... — javi2541997

OK

American Philosophy Association says in its rules about submitting papers: "Guidelines for Non-Sexist Use of Language," which it says is, "A pamphlet outlining ways to modify language in order to eliminate gender-specific references"... this is out of control. — javi2541997

"Guidelines for Non-Sexist Use of Language"! :grin: I know about the issues of sexism in languages, but I couldn't imagine it could go that high in the echelon!
So, it sounds a serious problem then. Much bigger than one can realize in everyday life! Well, institutions always exaggerate, don't they?

We have to protect Greek language at all costs! — javi2541997

Thank you! :grin:
If you refer mostly to the ancient Greek, I'm afraid it's too late! Modern Greek, a demotic language, influenced by scholarly-leterary people, writers etc. most of whom in Greece are communists --yes, they have to do with the evolution of the Greek language!-- is actually a bastard or hybrid language, which is OK for everyday, common talk, but it has demolished most of the great features of --even the logic behind-- the ancient and purist versions.

I still see Spanish as non sexist language because whenever we use gender endings exclusively for women, then it means that is far away of being sexist. — javi2541997

I see what you mean.

Do you think the removal of the Stalin statues all across the USSR in the 1960s was wrong?

Statues are made to celebrate people, their actions and their ideology, and they don’t function as neutral historical documents even many years later. When they’re not worth celebrating any more, pull them down. — Jamal

As I said, I think the fact that societies can and do put up statues that are an active misrepresentation demonstrates the degree to which we are capable of being misled. In a general social revolution I can understand removing all the hallmarks of the former dictator. On the other hand, statues that were embraced by the society at large do serve as reminders that we need to be ever vigilant. I think statues of Columbus ought to have plaques added outlining the historical truths.

Or just tear them all down and build some equally misguided new ones. I don't know.

Modern Greek, a demotic language, influenced by scholarly-leterary people, writers etc. most of whom in Greece are communists --yes, they have to do with the evolution of the Greek language!-- is actually a bastard or hybrid language — Alkis Piskas

It is one of the main issues I hate the most about politics and politicians. Why do they destroy everything? what happened to the creation of "modern Greek" is anything but the negative influence of marixist and Leninist "thinkers" that want to re-establish whatever. But this problem is not only on vocabulary/lexicon/grammar/ aspects but other things such as history or economics...

the ancient and purist versions. — Alkis Piskas

It is time to claim the purity of Greek language!
Make Greece great again! :grin:

Well, institutions always exaggerate, don't they? — Alkis Piskas

Yes, you are so right!

what happened to the creation of "modern Greek" is anything but the negative influence of marixist and Leninist "thinkers" that want to re-establish whatever. — javi2541997

I believe they wanted to bring the official language closest to the language simple, lay people speak, esp. in rural areas and villages. Communism was and always is so closely related to demotic Greek, that in the junta (colonels) period (1967-1974), demoticists were accused of communism and working to undermine the state!

I like reading demotic Greek in literature, although I'm not at all a literature person. Kazantzakis --one of the most known and loved Greek writers around the world-- was my best writer. He wrote in a very special, "personal" language, a kind of extended, reinforced or deeper --can't find the right word-- demotic Greek. He was of course a communist.

Back to sexism and language, one thing that is good in demotic/modern Greek is that it is much less connected to and it is offerered much less for sexism than ancient and purist Greek language. I believe this is the case also with old English, old French, etc. The more we go back, the more societies were male-dominated --with some exceptions of course-- and therefore we expect to see more sexism in language.

Kazantzakis — Alkis Piskas

Nikos Kazantakis! I only know about him that he was nominated for the Nobel Prize in Literature nine times. Now you mentioned him, I am interested in his works and I will check him and his works. It is been a long time since I have read a Greek author.

Back to sexism and language, one thing that is good in demotic/modern Greek is that it is much less connected to and it is offerered much less for sexism than ancient and purist Greek language — Alkis Piskas

Interesting. Nonetheless, do you think that demotic/modern Greek is not "spiritual" or "philosophical" as Ancient Greek?
Let me explain myself better: Do the Greeks think that modern Greek is just a static language and it is not used to make poetry, for example? does Ancient Greek still maintain a good status among the citizens?

I am interested in his works and I will check him and his works. — javi2541997

I don't know how is reading him in a foreign language, as good as the translation may be. For me, a big part of the value of his works lies in his language, about which I already told you. Of course, it feels always great to read ideas from him such as, "I hope nothing. I fear nothing. I am free." How buddhistic.

do you think that demotic/modern Greek is not "spiritual" or "philosophical" as Ancient Greek? — javi2541997

It is commonplace language. It can easily be quite ambiguous because of the oversimplification and levelling out or degradation of the words, because the same word --esp. secondary parts of the speech can n\mean different things. Which may become unncessarily repetitive. The ancient language was very exact. Both grammatically/syntactically and semantically.

Do the Greeks think that modern Greek is just a static language and it is not used to make poetry, for example? does Ancient Greek still maintain a good status among the citizens? — javi2541997

I don't know what Greeks think about that. Yoiu know, Greeks are not much of a reading public!
Neither can I judge whether Greek is a static language or not. I guess not.
But as for poetry, as I said, demotic/modern Greek finds its way and fits well in literature. So, for poetry it is just great. On the condition of course that you master it. I am a translator of tecnnical materials and I have written volumes of words in my 20+ years career in the field. So I'm fluent and I master the Greek language in this area. Yet, it happened once that I read a couple of chapters from a book about everyday life in Byzantium --a translation from some English writer-- and I really felt awe! I could never write like that! One must have read a big volume of literature works to be able to do that. And I haven't.

The ancient language was very exact. Both grammatically/syntactically and semantically. — Alkis Piskas

:up:

For I have not been studious to make a display of fine writing or of an Atticizing style, swollen with the sublime and lofty, but rather have been eager by means of every-day and conversational narrative to teach you those things of which I think you should not be ignorant, and which may without difficulty provide that intelligence and prudence which are the fruit of long experience. Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus (913-959 AD), De Administrando Imperio, Greek text edited by Gy. Moravcsik.

I found an interesting information related to Ancient Greek, I think is beautiful and worthy to share it here:
Dialects of Greek: The Greeks believed that the Ionians had long lived where they did but that the Dorians had arrived rather late. Indeed, another Greek dialect, not shown on the map, is "Epic" Greek, the language of the Iliad and the Odyssey. Epic Greek is more like Ionic and Aeolic than the other dialects. Classical Greek culture, including philosophy, began in Ionia, whose name became the word for "Greek" in all the languages to the East.

It is true that can be off topic of this thread but it is not an inconvenience because I am learning a lot about Greek language and I am grateful for your effort to help me understand. :up: :grin:

@javi2541997

Guidelines for Non-Sexist Use of Language"! — Alkis Piskas

Millions of English speaking Christians grew up "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost". Starting back in the 1970s, feminists felt aggrieved and started agitating in the name of "the Creator, the Redeemer, and either the Holy Spirit or 'Sustainer'". OK, so 'ghost' is a bit anachronistic. Is God gendered? Maybe not for some people, but Jesus definitely was male, like it or not. So, after endless bitching and carping, liturgy and hymns have been neutered in many Christian denominations. The changes in wording have resulted in more bitching and carping.

This isn't all bad -- God, after all, has never submitted to a physical examination. The less particularity and fewer specifics we assign to God the better. (Why? Because God is just not like us. "My ways are not your ways" he said.

There is a distinct difference between vernacular English and formal, literary, and academic English. The proper use of language requires speaking and writing in the right register, depending on one's purpose and audience.

An aside: The grammar and vernacular core vocabulary of English is Anglo-Saxon (A-S). Fiction, at least, can be written using the core A-S vocabulary. The Lord of the Rings trilogy is about 85-90% A-S. (The remaining 15% are word derived from French after the Norman Conquest (1066). That makes it very easy reading.

It's very difficult to write anything very complicated in A-S because so much of the old vocabulary was discarded over time, and the Angles and Saxons were agrarian people, not urban sophisticates which is not to say they were dull and stupid.

For I have not been studious ... — javi2541997

Nice passage.

Dialects of Greek — javi2541997

Looks interesting. I'll check it.

Classical Greek culture, including philosophy, began in Ionia, whose name became the word for "Greek" in all the languages to the East. — javi2541997

Ionians were one of the four maain tribes Greeks derived from. You can check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionians. (I don't know if it is a translation from the Greek page or the other way around.)

I am learning a lot about Greek language and I am grateful for your effort to help me understand. :up: :grin: — javi2541997

Thank you. It is my pleasure, Javi. But perhaps we shouldn't abuse this space ... Private messages (INBOX) may be a solution to this. :smile:

Thank you. It is my pleasure, Javi. But perhaps we shouldn't abuse this space ... Private messages (INBOX) may be a solution to this. — Alkis Piskas

No, no -- this is interesting. Don't hide your light under an inbox.

after endless bitching and carping, liturgy and hymns have been neutered in many Christian denominations. The changes in wording have resulted in more bitching and carping. — BC

In short, a real mess! :grin:

The less particularity and fewer specifics we assign to God the better. — BC

True. I liked that. :up:

There is a distinct difference between vernacular English and formal, literary, and academic English — BC

As in every other language, I guess. (I don't know though about the Eskimo language! :grin:)

The proper use of language requires speaking and writing in the right register, depending on one's purpose and audience. — BC

Right. In fact, I have mentioned about such differences in a comment to @javi2541997, regarding the formation of the modern Greek language.

The grammar and vernacular core vocabulary of English is Anglo-Saxon (A-S). — BC

OK. I'm not at all savant in this subject.

No, no -- this is interesting. Don't hide your light under an inbox. — BC

Ha, ha, ha! OK, then, since there's public in the room! :grin:
(Only, as far as I am concerned, I will be back tomorrow ... It's late here.)

Millions of English speaking Christians grew up "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost". Starting back in the 1970s, feminists felt aggrieved and started agitating in the name of "the Creator, the Redeemer, and either the Holy Spirit or 'Sustainer'". OK, so 'ghost' is a bit anachronistic. Is God gendered? Maybe not for some people, but Jesus definitely was male, like it or not. So, after endless bitching and carping, liturgy and hymns have been neutered in many Christian denominations. The changes in wording have resulted in more bitching and carping. — BC

It is true that cultural background has always been sexist and has rooted for males instead of women. Religion is a good example of gender controversies. God should not be related to gender or sexuality but it has always been representated as a old, wise man with a white beard. Jesus Christ, the great prophet, is a man (whatever if some likes it or others don't as you said).
Nonetheless, the opposition of those doctrines are even worse and most of them are extremist too. It is bad both spreading a cultural culture where woman lacks of protagonism and hating a language without reasoning and analysis. I don't know what it is worse, shouting in a church "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost" or call "latinx" a Mexican.

Ionians were one of the four maain tribes Greeks derived from. You can check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionians . (I don't know if it is a translation from the Greek page or the other way around.) — Alkis Piskas

So interesting! It appears Euskara (the language of Basque country) as suggested language to read the article of Wikipedia on Ionians.

Unlike "Aeolians" and "Dorians", "Ionians" appears in the languages of different civilizations around the eastern Mediterranean and as far east as Han China. They are not the earliest Greeks to appear in the records; that distinction belongs to the Danaans and the Achaeans. The trail of the Ionians begins in the Mycenaean Greek records of Crete.

History of Greece is so great and imperious! :flower:

(Only, as far as I am concerned, I will be back tomorrow ... It's late here.) — Alkis Piskas

See you tomorrow! Take care of yourself.

Ola!
I had a look at "Dialects of Greek". Well, this is too much for me. I mean, I never performed well in history although I was a B+ student at school. Maybe because I can't remember names and numbers. I prefer instead know the historical events as facts and esp. the reasons behind them.

Anyway, what I want to say here is that very often TPF discussions go astray of the subject/topic and remain astrtay --e.g. we can talk for eons about the ancient Greek history in general-- and I prefer to restrict discussions around the central topic. Only in that way one can squeeze the essence, facts, reasons etc. out of a subject and know the most one can know about it. Don't you agree?

Well, in that spirit, and to also keep ancient Greece in the foreground :smile:, I did some research about sexism and misogyny in ancient Greece. Here ars some interesting "findings":

“Misogyny is hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women. It is a form of sexism that is used to keep women at a lower social status than men, thus maintaining the social roles of patriarchy. Misogyny has been widely practiced for thousands of years. It is reflected in art, literature, human societal structure, historical events, mythology, philosophy, and religion worldwide.”
“Misogyny likely arose at the same time as patriarchy: three to five thousand years ago at the start of the Bronze Age. Monotheism—the belief in one, usually male god—began to replace pantheism and matriarchal religions.”
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny)
The emphasis on “patriarchy” is mine. It shows the main reason why misogyny existed in ancient Greece.

"Unfortunately, ancient Greek society was also, in many ways, deeply flawed. Notably, misogynistic attitudes towards women were extremely common, especially among elite educated men."
https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2019/06/07/ancient-greek-views-on-women/
Does "elite educated men" ring a bell? :smile:

So, since the language of a country and at different periods of its history reftects its civilization, society, customs, morality, etc. we see in it a (roughly) proportional amount of sexism in it.
Anyway, from that aspect at least, we are better off today! So we mustn;t complain! :smile:

Do not worry if we introduce different things from the main cause of this thread because we all are here to learn! and I did learn a lot about Greek lexicon. I started this thread with the aim of debating against feminism and I end up learning about Greek grammar. I don't regret it and I am proud of it. Again, thanks for all your information and how you are taking part in this thread.

Anyway, from that aspect at least, we are better off today! So we mustn;t complain — Alkis Piskas

Yeah! Agree with you we are better in this aspect.

On the other hand, I did a research in some information related to Spanish society (which is heavily influenced by Christianity) it says: The foundations of Christian misogyny—his guilt over sex, his insistence on female subjugation, his fear of female seduction—are all in the epistles of Saint Paul. While Galatians 3:28 says that one's sex does not affect salvation—"there continues to be a pattern in which the wife is to emulate the Church's submission to Christ and the husband is to emulate Christ's love for the Church."

Does "elite educated men" ring a bell? — Alkis Piskas

Oh yes, the ones who have always been there pulling the strings of the state...

The foundations of Christian misogyny—his guilt over sex, his insistence on female subjugation, his fear of female seduction—are all in the epistles of Saint Paul. — javi2541997

I dislike this guy a lot. He is the one responsible for the myth of the resurrection and the wrong road that Christianity followed, based on fake stories, authoritarianism, hostility and hate that we all witness still today. The passage you brought up reflects part of all that. And it refers only to woman's submission --which is part of the present topic-- but submission to God of every Christian, is one of the main messages that the Christian Church (esp. the Orthodox one) has always tried to conveyed, with great success in the past but less and less success today. The Church --not so powerful as during the Byzantine period but still very powerful today-- is the main responsible for the inequality between men and women. Still today, the Orthodox Christian Church --although it is called the "house of God" for all Chrstians-- together with the whole clergy, is run excelusively by men. There are only special places, like monasteries, that can be run by women. I guess that the Church has allowed that only to keep women's faith alive. I don't know if that faith would exist otherwsise. Society has undergone dramatic changes in the issue of equality of the sexes in the last 50 or so years, but the Church remined unchanged on that area. In fact, in every area. Like an immovable rock.
(This was not intended ... I just remembered the passage of the New Testament where Jesus said "on this rock I will build my church", addressing to Peter, but my "rock". BTW, the name Peter comes from the Greek word "petra" (= rock)!)
So yes, a real rock has been built, indeed.

But this lack of change does not happen only in the Christian Church, of course. Well, we know well how low women are regarded and how much suppressed are in islamic countries. But even in Buddhism, which is not a dogmatic religion, things have not channged either:

"When there is a talk about women and Buddhism, I have noticed that people often regard the topic as something new and different. They believe that women in Buddhism has become an important topic because we live in modern times and so many women are practicing the Dharma now. However, this is not the case. The female sangha has been here for centuries. We are not bringing something new into a 2,500-year-old tradition. The roots are there, and we are simply re-energizing them."
(Khandro Rinpoche, a female lama in Tibetan Buddhism, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Buddhism)

All this make wonder ... Was Religion --as a status quo, an establishment, not as a form of spirituality and quest for knowledge-- the main reason for the existence of sexism and inequality and an obstacle in the progress towards solving these issues?
For one thing, I can see that the drop in the authority, power and influence of Greek Church these days and as a continuing trend, is matched with less sexism and inequality in our society in general.
What do you think?

What do you think? — Alkis Piskas

I am agree with your argument on why religion has always been a sticky dogma which made a lot of efforts against progresses. Not only against women's rights but LGTBIQ, free education system, secularism, philosophy itself etc...
We have to highlight that language (at least Latin) was in hands of religious scrivener who interpreted and promoted the language according to the Bible and we already seen that this sacred book is sexist itself.

I wanted to make a brief research on the different branches of Christianity (for example: Protestant vs Catholics) and see if there are some differences about the treatment on women's rights. I found out the following opinions:

Many of the Christian ideals concerning gender stem from interpretations of the Bible. Christian feminists have often argued that the Bible is problematic, not because of the text itself, but because of the Christian scholars who have interpreted the scripture throughout time. An example of these inconsistencies can be found in the creation story of Adam and Eve; some Evangelicals believe that Adam and Eve were created at the same time, while others believe that Eve was made from the rib of Adam. There is also wide debate within many Christian denominations over the fault of Eve concerning the consumption of the forbidden fruit, and the entrance of sin into the world.Historically, a great deal of blame has been placed on Eve, but many Christian Feminists have worked to reframe the story, and shift the blame equally between both parties, as both partook of the fruit.

Some Christian Feminists made the decision to abandon direct scriptural use in their fight for equality, while others relied on verses that opposed patriarchal ideals, pointing out the inconsistencies within the Bible. The following passages act as examples of these inconsistencies:Galatians 3:28. "There is neither…male nor female for all are one in Christ Jesus." Yet, the power ends up on a man, so yes it is sexist.
Deborah of the Old Testament was a prophetess and "judge of Israel"I didn't know there was a prophetess!

Kim, Grace Ji-Sun (2001) in her work "Revisioning Christ". Feminist Theology says: Some Christian feminists believe that gender equality within the church cannot be achieved without rethinking the portrayal and understanding of God as a masculine being. I don't understand the opinion of this woman! :sweat:

We have to highlight that language (at least Latin) was in hands of religious scrivener who interpreted and promoted the language according to the Bible and we already seen that this sacred book is sexist itself. — javi2541997

Right. Good point. :up:

research on the different branches of Christianity — javi2541997

Good idea! :up:

not because of the text itself, but because of the Christian scholars who have interpreted the scripture throughout time. — javi2541997

Here they are again! :smile:

some Evangelicals believe that Adam and Eve were created at the same time — javi2541997

I like that. More logical.

.Historically, a great deal of blame has been placed on Eve, but many Christian Feminists have worked to reframe the story, and shift the blame equally between both parties, as both partook of the fruit — javi2541997

Nice! I always believe that the story of Eve, the apple and the snake was totally unjust. for women. However, at the end both Adam and Eve were expelled from Eden. So God --I mean the story-- made them both and, as a consequence, the whole humanity sinners!. What a hideous story!
Well, the Bible is full of hideous and immoral stories ...

Some Christian Feminists made the decision to abandon direct scriptural use in their fight for equality, while others relied on verses that opposed patriarchal ideals, pointing out the inconsistencies within the Bible. — javi2541997

Interesting.

Some Christian feminists believe that gender equality within the church cannot be achieved without rethinking the portrayal and understanding of God as a masculine being. I don't understand the opinion of this woman! — javi2541997

What I underdstand --which of course might not be exactly what thow woman had in mind-- is that the Church has to reconsider the ide that God was/is of a male gender. I have talked about the unreasonable attributes given to the Supreme Being that Christians call "God", which besides the gender, include aging, emotions, vegeance/punishment, etc., which make no sense at all for an eternal and superior being.

Well, we should know today that all the sciptures were based on human weaknesses, biases, immorality, irrationality and other negative human traits. And we should only view it from that aspect. Like the Greek mythology, which is plenty of stories similar to the Bible.

What I underdstand --which of course might not be exactly what thow woman had in mind-- is that the Church has to reconsider the ide that God was/is of a male gender. I have talked about the unreasonable attributes given to the Supreme Being that Christians call "God", which besides the gender, include aging, emotions, vegeance/punishment, etc., which make no sense at all for an eternal and superior being. — Alkis Piskas

I understood it know, thanks for explaining it to me! :up:

Both you and that author are right in the fact of how non-sense of having a humanize image of God. Different theists always tried to “reinforce” the image making him or her or “it” a very tremendous and colossal figure. If we try to interpret the lexicon of the word “God”, it seems to me that is not a male word. It sounds neutral, but I guess the problem here is how is understood or interpreted. That’s why the woman complained. Most of the priests considered God as a man because is powerful, maybe a woman would be otherwise according to their thoughts. Well, I always debated on God’s existence but I never thought its etymology would make me a lot of questions…

Well, the Bible is full of hideous and immoral stories ... — Alkis Piskas

It can be lascivious sometimes, indeed!

If we try to interpret the lexicon of the word “God”, it seems to me that is not a male word. — javi2541997

In my Geek Lexikon there's no main definition of "θεός" (pr. theós) (= god) or even a single definition. . Instead it has been interpreted in various ways. Indeed, I have found out that there was none in ancient Greece, and that the word was written and pronounced differently in different parts of Greece. The Greeks did not believe in a single God or that the world was created by some entity. Instead they had the gods and goddesses we all know, representing different types of characters. The idea of a single god --called God or Supreme Being-- the Creator of the Universe was yet to be "invented" by the Judeo-Christian scriptures and this is how we got a male God. Only in a few religions God is of a male gender. Traditional Jewish philosophy does not attach a gender to God. In Hinduism, Brahman represents a principle rather than an entity, so it has no gender.

And so on. We can be here all day. And then some. :smile:

Traditional Jewish philosophy does not attach a gender to God. In Hinduism, Brahman represents a principle rather than an entity, so it has no gender. — Alkis Piskas

Interesting.

I still interested in this topic that we are debating about and I found an interesting paper: What God would be?, with a brief summary it says arguments to consider about.

At the dawn of history, and in the religion of more recently attested, pre-literate peoples, there are gods. We get used to the idea of such gods portrayed in anthropomorphic or theriomorphic (i.e. animal) forms and embedded in mythological systems, but as we find them, this is not always the case. Gods can be associated with natural or fetish objects and exist with little in the way of mythological accounts. It is tempting to think that this is how they began, but we are likely to always be without relevant evidence, just as it will be difficult to know about the origin of language or of religion in general.


Indeed, the gods, spirits, and their insitutions can now conceivably be dismissed only because things have changed. Human consciousness changed, and the gods changed. At first, the gods and their realm only grew. As civilizations began and human society became larger, more sophisticated, and more organized, the representation of the gods, and of the dead, became themselves larger, more sophisticated, and more organized.

Well, the most important issue is what the gods were always for, and that was meaning. And the fundamental part of meaning is, in Greek terms, the Good and the Beautiful. I have argued elsewhere that a theory of value requires a theory of the transcendent. Both Plato and Kant would agree with that. Value is not supported by merely empirical knowledge or a naturalistic epistemology or ontology. Where Kant wisely gives us few details about God (since he thinks that a positive metaphysic is impossible), Plato doesn't give us a God at all. He gives us the Form of the Good. That the Form of the Good was later folded into God by Aristotle and the Neoplatonists,

All this is quite inteesting.

Plato doesn't give us a God at all. — javi2541997

Right. As I said, there was no God in ancient Greek religion, phiosophy or beliefs. Only gods.
Socrates was accused --among other things-- of not believing in the gods in whom the city of Athens believed. Yet, he had religious beliefs and he was a highly moral and rational person. He was teaching that Virtue was the supreme good. I have read somewhere that he believed god was perfectly good and perfectly wise. However, we actually do not know what "god" meant to him. Maybe, it was the daemon that was talking to him ... Well, whatever it was, it had no gender or even human form, contrary to the anthropomorphised by the society gods at his time!

Religious authorities, with the support of state authotities, were always and still are persecuting non-believers! One must add this to the other immoralities that are or can be attributed to them, including sexism/misogyny.

Robert Graves had an interesting theory that "The Old Religion" worshiped the Triple Goddess. This was based on the more natural matrilineal society. The Greek myths retain the traces of this religion in the muses, the fates, and so on, and tells the story, in code, of how the patriarchal takeover happened. Patriarchy implies patrilineal inheritance, and that necessitates the control of women's sexuality, and hence their subjugation.
The White Goddess

He also has a retelling of the Gospel stories, King Jesus, which is also worth a look. A sadly neglected controversial scholar.

While googling about misogyny in ancient Greece, I fell on a Quora question "Why were the ancient Greeks so sexist against women?", to which I answered, for lack of other valid answers so far, based on what came to know from my research for your topic. I got this interesting comment from a Quora member (non Greek):

"Just a guess but I think maybe the eruption of Santorini, which tidal wave wiped out the dominant Minoan power, may have affected the rise of misogyny in the surrounding area. Prior to the eruption a voluptuous female goddess was their protector. After the eruption the survivors blamed the goddess and desecrated her images and temples."

Could be indeed an influencing factor. Who knows?

Religious authorities, with the support of state authotities, were always and still are persecuting non-believers! One must add this to the other immoralities that are or can be attributed to them, including sexism/misogyny. — Alkis Piskas

:up:

Thanks for sharing. Interesting information, :up:

Could be indeed an influencing factor. Who knows? — Alkis Piskas

I am agree and yes, it could have been an influencing factor inside the progress of sociology and history.


Interesting comment of that user, but I checked out on the problem of sexism and misogyny too. I found out the following information:

...Between Isis, Athena, and Aphrodite, there’s no doubt women possessed great power in ancient society. The real question is, what happened between ancient times and the present? When did men take over? When were women pushed back? The Origins of Misogyny: How History Held Women Back
When it comes to pinpointing, there isn’t one, specific event that boosted the power of men and degraded the power of women. Instead, misogyny’s emergence in multiple cultures worked together to create the uneven roles of today.

Misogyny is evident not only in Christianity, but also in Islam. Chapter 4, Line 34 of the Quran instructs a husband to beat his rebellious wife until she obeys his commands. Explicit directions of brutality implies the desire to keep women contained, like objects, and thus encourages hatred towards the gender. We didn't make quotations in Quran but my guess goes that is sexist as much as is Bible. Another intriguing fact inside this controversy is the way those religious text dictate how women should look like. This is the main cause hijab or Awrah (which means "intimate parts"). Quran says: be covered by clothing. Exposing the intimate parts of the body is unlawful in Islam as the Quran instructs the covering of male and female genitals, and for adult females the breasts. Exposing them is normally considered sinful. Exposing intimate parts when needed, such as going to the toilet or bathing, falls under a specific set of rules. Precisely which body parts must be covered varies among different schools of Islamic thought.

Well, it is interesting but I don't want to go so deep inside Quran or Islamic dress code and sorry to leave the main topic on lexicon and languages again! :eyes:

Religious authorities, with the support of state authotities, were always and still are persecuting non-believers! — Alkis Piskas

I'm not sure that was true, particularly of the many gods religions. It is true of the religions of the Book. All that 'begetting' is very much the record of patriarchal lineages, though I'm told there are vestiges of a matrilineal system somewhere in the Hebrew traditions. But between the Greek and Roman gods there was something between a translation and absorption :

Zeus= Jupiter
Poseidon= Neptune
Hades= Pluto
Hera= Juno ( No children)
Demeter= Ceres
Hestia= Vesta (No children)
Ares= Mars
Aphrodite= Venus
Athena= Minerva
Hephaestus= Vulcan
Hermes= Mercury
Dionysus= Bacchus
ETC.
This seems quite natural - "Oh you call the love goddess Venus, we know her as Aphrodite." As opposed to "My god is the only god, and all your gods are false, and your worship thereof sacrilege."

More equivalences here

Interesting. But doesn't all this have to do with Gallic/Celtic myths, the druids, etc. rather than Greek mythology?
And I believe it is impossble that Greeks culture was influcenced by the Gallc one. Rather the other way around. I can't also think that even the Romans, who were much nearer to the Gallic areas, were e\influence but them. In fact, Romans adopted a lot of the Greek gods, although in most cases there was a change of name.
Besides, Gallics reached the Balkans and went into war with Greeks only in the 3d cent. BC. And that didn't last long. They were settled somehwre further east ...

As for the "Triple Goddess" she has nothing to do with the main Greek goddesses, Hera, Athena and Aphrodite.