Hi there, Royal Bank of Scotland. Well this is what matters in this life isn't it? Not a dull topic at all. Can we call it sexual attraction?

look at it from a different angel — RBS

I'm not sure if Eros/Cupid is an angel or not, but we have a void in modern society where there used to be religion and propriety. We have to negotiate relationships that might include helpless infants on an ad hoc, individual basis. There is a thing called 'commitment'; you know that 'for better or worse' clause that used to be in a marriage. "I might kill my wife, but not divorce her."

Romance is mostly fantasy, and that is dangerous. There is a delicate balance of friendship and hard work that goes in to a long term relationship, that ideally will keep the flame of passion alight in the long term. R_E_S_P_E_C_T goes along way, as the song has it.

What will you put up with from a friend? Can you have a really irritating friend? How many good orgasms will make you put up with an arsehole?Who gets to keep the kids and the record collection? I'm not sure what your real question is...

Can't love develop from friendship? — RBS

It not only can, I believe the best long-term relationships do. Even if there was an immediate physical attraction, keeping enough distance to know and understand each other before physical intimacy is a good idea. I'm not saying that it's impossible for two people who fell into bed, or crazy love, at first sight can't go on to become friends - just that the odds are against it. That first encounter leaves a very deep impression and colours almost everything you think and feel about that person from then on.

But not all friendship can bear the weight of marital commitment. To mean that much to someone - always have to be available to support, encourage, applaud, forgive, console, cheer and listen to - listen with both ears, whenever the need arises, no matter that you may be preoccupied with some issue of your own - that's a challenge you might not take on for every friend.
Overlooking someone's faults, mistakes, annoying mannerisms and bad habits for a few hours a week is quite different from being duty bound to do it 24/7 for the rest of your life - especially knowing, from the example of your parents and grandparents that these things tend to magnify in old age.
Add procreation - discussing, deciding about, preventing or promoting, going through the process, carrying out the duties of parenthood as a unit - is an even bigger challenge.

Most friendships, like most romantic liaisons, simply can't carry that much freight.

Or he was just unlucky? — RBS

No, he was probably wise. It would have been far more damaging if they married. Once the commitment has been made, people are usually reluctant to admit that it was a bad decision; they paper over the cracks and compound the error until they can't pretend anymore. By then it's a big, complicated divorce, instead of a clean, simple parting of ways; others are involved, in-laws, children, pets, mutual friends, property. A lot more is broken than just two resilient young hearts.

A while later, I noticed that they were drifting apart until they parted their ways. I've reached a dead end, what went wrong? Why did it not sustain? For both me and anyone else who knew them, it was ideal. — RBS

In my experience, people want and expect different things from their friends than they do from their romantic partners and different things from their romantic partners than they do from their spouses. They are often usually not even aware of those differences. Because of that, lots of things can go wrong at the transition points between levels of attachment. If there are significant conflicts, it would take a really strong friendship to hold things together.

Hi there, Royal Bank of Scotland. — unenlightened

:grin: haha.

Their romance started from friendship. Their friendship was much more playful and sincere, they would irritate each other for amusement and then laugh about it. Their friendship developed into a romantic relationship, making it even more enjoyable to watch them interact. — RBS

The observer was wrong. Romantic attraction is neither of these. You feel it right away -- you may not be aware of what's happening, but it's never "friendship" that you feel.
Yes, I know. This is an unpopular view.

I believed that perhaps this was the true method of getting to know someone. — RBS

Yes, getting to know about someone. But it doesn't mean this is a good way if the closeness is about attraction.

A while later, I noticed that they were drifting apart until they parted their ways. I've reached a dead end, what went wrong? Why did it not sustain? — RBS

Because it was never a strong attraction. It was never love. It was convenient, friends with benefits, they're available to each other. Ask each of them. They'll tell you the truth.

Do you know when I fell in love with someone? I was f*cked. I cried, a few times. I cried for the possibility of it not working out, I cried for not being able to hold that person close to me. I worried that someone else might be in my place. It was a combination of emotions. Happy and sad and worried and longing.

Hi there, Royal Bank of Scotland. Well this is what matters in this life isn't it? Not a dull topic at all. Can we call it sexual attraction? — unenlightened

Now that's how you get someone's attraction. :)

Can we call it sexual attraction? — unenlightened

I don't know if it was all about that, but you maybe right. Maybe it is after all that one thing that matters and is sex. I know now a days kids are like monkeys and jumps from one branch to the next and not thinking of the long term consequences and the scars that were left by the tree branches. But anyways I think you have raised an interesting question here.

But not all friendship can bear the weight of marital commitment. — Vera Mont

This is very true. One can argue that friendship with no attachment or attraction can be pure or others might not agree as marriage can be a blessing, so anything being blessed can be pure, but again this can be refuted.

No, he was probably wise. It would have been far more damaging if they married. — Vera Mont

I think the main breakup point for them was this that they couldn't commit to all the pain that comes with the marriage. Just like below where unenlightened said.

There is a delicate balance of friendship and hard work that goes in to a long term relationship, that ideally will keep the flame of passion alight in the long term. R_E_S_P_E_C_T goes along way, as the song has it. — unenlightened

This is very interesting to read:

They are often usually not even aware of those differences. — T Clark

So meaning that we should only look for likeminded folks in our lives?

The observer was wrong. Romantic attraction is neither of these. You feel it right away -- you may not be aware of what's happening, but it's never "friendship" that you feel.
Yes, I know. This is an unpopular view. — L'éléphant

Not unpopular at all. We all have different prescriptions for our lenses of prescriptive. So again friendship cannot led to romantic love, or at least that's what my understanding is. If it's love then it should be told at first? If the intentions are laid out front maybe there is a better alignment for expectations? Understanding can be different than of from a friend.

Ask each of them. They'll tell you the truth. — L'éléphant

I haven't asked the girl yet, but I know my friend from a very long time and he is not a player. Not that I know of his bedtime stories but yet again in the past 15 years or so, he has been truthful about almost everything. Now we all do have secrets and we should but in general view I think this guy was in Love. Maybe that faded away as we all discussed above on the way of getting from being in love to a longer commitment in life.

Can't love develop from friendship? — RBS

Friendship is the ideal, I think.

However it begins, if the relationship between life partners doesn't become a close friendship, it's doomed to a short life.

I know my friend from a very long time and he is not a player. Not that I know of his bedtime stories but yet again in the past 15 years or so, he has been truthful about almost everything. Now we all do have secrets and we should but in general view I think this guy was in Love. Maybe that faded away as we all discussed above on the way of getting from being in love to a longer commitment in life. — RBS

It has nothing to do with being a player. It wasn't "love".

get to know them first — RBS

I've always preferred the "sex first, lengthy conversation later" approach. Unless a really good conversation came first. Then I'd skip over the sex part and stick with friendship.

(Romantic) lovers can become friends, but friends don't become (romantic) lovers, which is OK because friendship lasts longer than (romantic) love.

At least, in my experience.

And lovers do well to become friends, because then their relationship has a much longer future.

Romantic relationships which end abruptly do not become friendships. Kicking somebody out of bed usually means The End. Move on.

Why can't friendships turn into (romantic) love? Carnality. Friends are not judged as potential sex partners. Potential sex partners aren't judged on the longer-term potentials of friendship. The attempt to shift friendship into romantic love is likely to lead to conflict.

I've reached a dead end, what went wrong? Why did it not sustain? For both me and anyone else who knew them, it was ideal. — RBS

I'd say that this is the nature of human relationship. Commitment, what was, ideals -- the stuff of conversation, but not the stuff of a relationship.

Which isn't to say that a relationship will always dissipate. But only that all relationships are always vulnerable to dissipation. What makes a relationship work over time are the participants, and as they change or find things out about one another sometimes we make mistakes, we break our relationships, or we become fascinated by something aside from the relationship, or we take the relationship for granted (oh, that will always be there), or we simply drift apart for no dramatic reason whatsoever but simply because life is busy between work, children, friends, and commitments. (hence why you hear people talk of "finding that spark again")

I've always viewed romantic relationships as containing 3 parts.

1. Attraction - The physical arousal aspect. Your physical desire and fulfillment with another person.
2. Friendship - Actually having things in common. Enjoying activities and conversations together.
3. Love - A full understanding of a person's good and bad. Despite knowing both, you desire to stay with them and assist them in becoming the best they can be.

Shallow relationships have 1 out of the 3 with your romantically preferred sex. These are generally not going to last long, and if they do, they will be seen as unhealthy by others around them.

Having 2 out of the three is a decent start. As the relationship develops, the two stronger one's will develop and the third will likely blossom. However, there are levels and limits to most relationships. Someone may deeply love and be friends with someone but strongly dislike the sex. Some people, which may be your friends, have great sex and friendship, but find they can't tolerate the negatives about each other that they discovered about each other as the relationship deepened.

And then of course, there's the absolute ideal which are written and sung by poets, a relationship that is strong in all three aspects. This is exceedingly rare. Even if one person had all three at a strong level, that doesn't mean the other person returns those three at the same overall level of intensity either.

The practical is to find someone that has 2 out of the three aspects you most desire given to you, and someone who you can give 2 out of the three aspects they desire the most. Thinking in this way, its no surprise people go through so may relationships looking for the right fit.

I loved 4 times and I lost 4 times. Should I be giving up? :broken:

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