Is torturing a child for fun wrong?
Yes, obviously. — Bartricks
Do you think evolution didn't provide them with the ability to make decisions and act on those decisions? Do you think people 100,000 years ago couldn't act without application of rules, objectivity or teleology? — T Clark
What do you mean by wrong? — Andrew4Handel
The calculations you need to do to live ethically are immense and convoluted. — Andrew4Handel
I in particular has a very strict authoritarian religious upbringing. — Andrew4Handel
I think you are stating a preference rather than discovering as morality. In some countries they are adamant homosexuality is wrong and should be punishable by death. Having a strong reaction to something doesn't mean you have made an accurate judgement. — Andrew4Handel
The ad absurdum is saving baby Hitler from drowning which seems admirable but saving his life would doom others. But my general point is that every choice we make is done in a situation of infinite possibilities and without anyway to know we have done the best or correct thing.
It is something that can lead to an existential crisis. — Andrew4Handel
But my general point is that every choice we make is done in a situation of infinite possibilities and without anyway to know we have done the best or correct thing.
It is something that can lead to an existential crisis. — Andrew4Handel
Synonyms and closely related terms include existential dread, existential vacuum, existential neurosis, and alienation. The various aspects associated with existential crises are sometimes divided into emotional, cognitive, and behavioral components. Emotional components refer to the feelings they provoke, such as emotional pain, despair, helplessness, guilt, anxiety, and loneliness. Cognitive components encompass the problem of meaninglessness, the loss of personal values, and reflections about one's own mortality. Outwardly, existential crises often express themselves in addictions, anti-social and compulsive behavior. — Wiki - Existential crisis
Every decision we make we don't know if we are doing the right thing and what the consequences are going to be. — Andrew4Handel
The problem brought about by this increased freedom is sometimes referred to as the agony of choice.[93] The increased difficulty is described in Barry Schwartz’s law, which links the costs, time, and energy needed to make a well-informed choice to the number of alternatives available — Wiki - Existential crisis
But my general point is that every choice we make is done in a situation of infinite possibilities and without anyway to know we have done the best or correct thing.
It is something that can lead to an existential crisis. — Andrew4Handel
Trial and error is how we learn, yes, but not necessarily as individuals, that is to convoluted. We get most passed on by our parents, society at large, by tradition.... and then we can work with that and try out some things, sure. But almost nobody has the time, energy and the genius to make that sort of strategy work purely as an individual. — ChatteringMonkey
Those baby studies have a problematic paradigm.
On what grounds are the babies evaluations being considered moral? You have to prove a behaviour is good or moral not the baby and the baby is doing things we think are good which could be anything we already have a preference for.
Wynn also found babies seemed to exhibit bias — Andrew4Handel
Here the babies choice overlooks "bad" behaviour based on shared preferences. — Andrew4Handel
I was badly bullied in school as a child and if humans are innately moral I would like an explanation for how that happened? You need to explain the array of antisocial behaviour humans exhibit in light of supposed inherent moral knowledge. — Andrew4Handel
My main dilemma on this thread though is not morality per se but choosing out of a seeming infinity of choices and with modern technology at our finger types such of the masses of information and behaviours on the internet we have even more choice daily. None of these choices may turn out to be profound but the seem to be there free will permitting yet our brain somehow copes at least to some extent. — Andrew4Handel
Yes, there is truth in what you've written. I would just say that for most decisions, it doesn't really matter what you decide, as long as any possible negative consequences are minor. Save your stomach aches for decisions that really matter and do what you can to recognize which ones really do and which ones don't. I have a default setting - if I don't have strong feelings, I decide no. I never get the extras - extended warrantees, extra buttons on the washing machine, a moon roof. When I vote on initiative petitions or referenda, if I don't really understand the possible consequences of the law and agree they are worthwhile, I don't vote on it at all. You have the power to limit the number of choices you have to make. — T Clark
The baby Hitler example, for instance, is never going to happen and like most thought experiment scenarios, has minimal relevance. — Tom Storm
No calculations involved. We can only do the best we can (within reason) and make our choices. — Tom Storm
Saying that humans may have an innate moral sense is not the same as saying they are innately good. As shown in Wynn's studies, I think it shows we are innately judgmental. — T Clark
I think we are in a situation where are decisions or lack of can have profound consequences. Every one who didn't stand up against Hitler contributed to the Holocaust. — Andrew4Handel
Choices can be restrained but are these restraints, pragmatic or social or religious or through fear etc? — Andrew4Handel
Doing the best we can can be apathy and a lack of imagination and following the crowd. — Andrew4Handel
You are asking, after I've done what I choose, how will I know whether I've done the best thing. Give this up, only an omniscient being, like some assume God to be, could ever answer that, and we are only human. — Metaphysician Undercover
My point is that none of this is relevant to the 'baby Hitler' thought experiment wherein a scenario which can't possibly happen is used to shape real world thinking. — Tom Storm
For instance, a guy decides to do X for the good of all humanity; having so done, a sociopath gets pissed and kills off all of the guy’s family. Here, the intended outcome is “improved benefit to all of humanity” and the actual outcome is “the murder of all of one’s family”. Judging by the consequences of the choice alone, this choice was therefore wrong/bad/malevolent … and the person ought not have so chosen.
One could argue along the lines of “the path to hell is paved with good intentions”. Here, more explicitly, the intentions intending to do good don’t take into account all the practical repercussions/consequences of so intending... — javra
It did happen Hitler existed and cause the deaths of Millions and massive destruction in Europe. Hitler was kept alive as a child by interventions. — Andrew4Handel
How would you describe a rational or reasonable action? — Andrew4Handel
I'm with Tom Storm - We do the best we can. — T Clark
Conformity is certainly an easier life. — Andrew4Handel
I'm with Tom Storm - We do the best we can.
— T Clark
But some people want more from life. — Andrew4Handel
To me, this suggests that human behavior beyond just acquisition of language is motivated by instinct modified and expanded by learning and experience. — T Clark
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