If Civilians are an important part of the war effort then to win the war you must eliminate all important means of the enemies war effort this includes civillians. — Vishagan
The concept of self defense being a duty (not just a right) also has roots in secular Western philosophy, meaning pacifism for the sake of protecting the innocent among your enemy is itself immoral. — Hanover
You have 2 competing rules:
1. You have the right to defend yourself.
2. You are forbidden to kill the innocent.
Your question is what happens when the killing of the innocent is required to defend yourself, which is often the case in war. — Hanover
[...] self-preservation is of the highest priority, meaning you have the right to kill the innocent to save yourself, meaning I prioritize #1 over #2 when there is a conflict.
[...] The concept of self defense being a duty (not just a right) also has roots in secular Western philosophy, meaning pacifism for the sake of protecting the innocent among your enemy is itself immoral. — Hanover
In term of tribalism/patriotism there is a vague case here maybe. Vague though. — I like sushi
1. You have the right to defend yourself. — Hanover
This means that bad people always have the advantage of playing by the rules when it suits them, and cheating when that suits them better — unenlightened
But this is what I'm challenging, which is that you can have an ethical ethics system if it gives advantage to those you consider unethical. — Hanover
. If you go by the moral clause of not eliminating civillians and if that directly means your defeat in war, then you must either be horrible and kill or accept your own defeat. — Vishagan
That is, if an evil band of murderers exposes your peace loving society to death, oppression, subrogation and the like, and you have the ability to stop it, you must, even should it means devastation to the peaceful members of the murderous invaders.
Are you at all able to imagine a scenario where e.g. you're the leader of an ancient tribe that is slowly being encircled by a dangerous enemy who is mobilizing around your borders? — BitconnectCarlos
As I've also noted, the morality I've described is what prevails in most every nation. — Hanover
So just run. Cede to the wicked. Abandon your farmland, homes, and storage centers to them. — BitconnectCarlos
So if they wanna get proportional back with the ratio to even make it 10 to 1 in favor of IDF killing the most innocents. I can't blame them, they're the victims. — Vaskane
Don't claim the moral high ground and the right to murder, rape torture etc. Virtue has a price. — unenlightened
Immediately upon declaring Statehood they stole the homes of a million + Palestinians. — Vaskane
Cause they weren't able to contend with the power of a State. — Vaskane
I didn't. Rape, murder, and torture isn't necessary for the protection of one's society. — Hanover
of society hitherto owes its origins to the splendor of those barbarians mighty enough to carve their will through blood and declare what is "Good." — Vaskane
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.