as Rorty would put it, there is no truth "out there" because there really is no out there, for such an idea is a foolish metaphysics, this "original Unity". I am inclined to agree, except for one very important issue, which is metaphysics and the revelatory, non discursive, radical, affective apprehension of the world Buddhists talk about. This is not a religious fiction. — Constance
Heidegger and most others would disagree, simply because the being there of the cup and the coffee cannot be parted from the "cups and coffee". — Constance
Nicely put and intriguing. 'Journey back to life' is particularly juicy stuff.
Those metaphors, by the way, are not how I generally see the world. They were chosen for their brutalist effect (a la Weber to which you probably allude) in contrast to all this lofty talk about metaphysics.
Can you say more about the journey back to life? It sounds a little like a 'paradise lost' narrative. Does it relate to Buddhist metaphysics? Are you suggesting that Buddhism might be a kind of antidote to the present era of capitalism, scientism and managerialism? — Tom Storm
But at least then we can say we are alive in more than merely the "technical" sense, right? — Janus
I see metaphysics as very ordinary, but of course it would appear "lofty" compared to that all-consuming banality. — Janus
When you wrote "journey back to life" it sounded like a metaphor for a revival/recovery/regeneration or reinvention - possibly even in a Nietzschean sense. — Tom Storm
I am mildly obsessed with the ordinary which I insist of calling the quotidian.
Can you say some more on this? What is a 'revelatory, non discursive, radical, affective apprehension of the world'? Do you see this as a possibility elsewhere - Christian/Sufi mysticism for instance? — Tom Storm
It sounds to me as if you agree with Schopenhauer over Hegel. Is the world pure will, irrational and free. Or is the world pure reason wherein new truths build on old one in a structure. In medieval times, they had this same debate between Thomists and Scotians and I'm assuming Buddhism tends more towards will — Gregory
The idea is, I think, very Buddhist, and Husserl does call it a "method" rather than just a theory. He holds that the object before your gaze is generally thick with the "naturalistic attitude" which refers to our everydayness affairs, but it is grasped with such spontaneity, it seems direct and natural. The epoche is a method of reducing this perceptual encounter to its bare presence, such that the object itself (back to the things themselves! is his rallying cry) in its intuitive purity is revealed. — Constance
we never can observe actuality itself, because the understanding is essentially conceptual. — Constance
I agree with Husserl on the essential epoche as a way to self realization. His epoche is a less radical version of meditation. — Constance
Enlightenment is the wonderful feeling of experiencing the world free of implicit "knowledge claims, keeping in mind that knowledge never was just a conceptual tag hung on a thing; it is a conditioned response to the world established since the time of infancy, and it is settled deep into experience as a default acceptance of things. — Constance
Affective apprehension: what is nirvana? And what is liberation/enlightenment? The epoche is a method, so what happens when thought encounters the world, and is reduced to the bare perceptual away from the apperceptual (sp?)? The self becomes free. It is not just an intellectual movement, but an experience. Enlightenment is the wonderful feeling of experiencing the world free of implicit "knowledge claims, keeping in mind that knowledge never was just a conceptual tag hung on a thing; it is a conditioned response to the world established since the time of infancy, and it is settled deep into experience as a default acceptance of things. Release from this is not just a nullity, though there is much that is nullified. It is an uncanny experience of extraordinary dimensions. — Constance
You believe that nirvana is merely an uncanny experience? Like seeing a ghost or something? — praxis
I've been interested in epoche for some time. Since I was a child I have often found myself regarding the world around me as unfamiliar and strange and wonder at this. It leave me feeling light and unshackled. In the quotidian life we inherit/develop a way of seeing that seems to be primed by conceptual schemes. You seem to agree. — Tom Storm
That is an interesting idea. Self-realization seems to involve a type of self-shedding, no? — Tom Storm
That's a striking description and resonates with me. — Tom Storm
You believe that nirvana is merely an uncanny experience? Like seeing a ghost or something? — praxis
As I've read, what this is about entirely rests with what kind of person you are. Putting it very plainly, either you are inclined toward a "spiritualist interpretation", or you are not. — Constance
You believe that nirvana is merely an uncanny experience? Like seeing a ghost or something?
— praxis
Not purporting to answer for Constance but I'd say it's an altered state of consciousness, not a matter of seeing something uncanny (like a ghost) but seeing ordinary things uncannily. — Janus
A brain state, yes. A suppressed DMN, to be precise. I don't think that uncanny is a good descriptor though because it means something strange, particularly in an unsettling way. — praxis
Nirvana, on the other hand, means liberation from the cycle of life and death and perfect happiness. — praxis
That's one, perhaps simplistic, interpretation of the meaning of nirvana. Buddhists have also said that nirvana just is samsara. Do we know what that experience is for adepts? Must it be the same for all, in any case? — Janus
Indeed. I'm not someone who has reason to believe in the existence of Nirvana/enlightenment (except perhaps as metaphor), but what can we meaningfully say about such a nebulous conceptual artifact if we are not actually there? I had read and heard that the experience of attaining (if that's the verb) enlightenment can arrive as a great shock. — Tom Storm
That's one, perhaps simplistic, interpretation of the meaning of nirvana. Buddhists have also said that nirvana just is samsara. — Janus
Must it be the same for all, in any case?
Well, I've never heard of a Buddhist heaven, high up in the clouds or whatever, so nirvana must be right here, neck deep in the midst of all the shit. Where else would it be? — praxis
If we're talking about Buddhist Nirvana, it must only be what they claim it is. If we're not talking about Buddhist Nirvana, then we are completely free to confer whatever grand and nuanced meanings we wish to our uncanny experiences. — praxis
Buddhists do not consider liberation a temporary mental state. — praxis
The existence of God is controversial also, nevertheless belief in God is kind of a prerequisite in many religions. — praxis
Yes, and it has often struck me that theists are not conceptualizing the same thing when they allegedly share this belief. The notion of god seems incoherent or 'diverse' enough to embrace everything from the 'ground of being' to a throne dwelling elder, with a flowing grey beard. — Tom Storm
The existence of God is controversial also, nevertheless belief in God is kind of a prerequisite in many religions. Maybe there are secular theist too though. Wouldn’t surprise me in the least. — praxis
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