3+1(.5) (MSc). — Agustino

Sounds like a bachelors degree here in the States, which is not anything to write home about, really.

You just misunderstood what I meant by my statement. — Agustino

Alright, okay.

I'm not blaming it, I'm merely saying the truth — Agustino

Bitch, fucking puleaze. Get off your high horse.

Quote the right bit of text. The ego is in you saying your character would be wasted by working at McD's. — Agustino

In Christian language, I'd say that the current path I'm on is my calling. The good in me would best be expressed by not working at McDonald's. This really isn't that outlandish a thought.

Well yes, I think if Sapientia wants more money, then he needs to work harder (more than fulltime). I certainly had weeks this past year when I worked 12hours+ day after day. — Agustino

It never follows that the poor are always poor because they don't work hard, and the rich are rich because they worked harder than everyone else. Living in this modern capitalist West means that a lot of people get shafted and/or fall through the cracks because a small segment of the population are disproportionately wealthy in relation to the rest of citizens.

"Working harder" really isn't good advice, especially for people who are already doing so and can't get themselves up and out.

Sounds like a bachelors degree here in the States, which is not anything to write home about, really. — Heister Eggcart

Nope. That's the 3 years. MSc is a Masters Degree (the approx. 1.5 years).

In Christian language, I'd say that the current path I'm on is my calling. The good in me would best be expressed by not working at McDonald's. This really isn't that outlandish a thought. — Heister Eggcart

Okay I don't disagree. It just sounds much more reasonable when you express it like this.

It never follows that the poor are always poor because they don't work hard, and the rich are rich because they worked harder than everyone else. Living in this modern capitalist West means that a lot of people get shafted and/or fall through the cracks because a small segment of the population are disproportionately wealthy in relation to the rest of citizens.

"Working harder" really isn't good advice, especially for people who are already doing so and can't get themselves up and out. — Heister Eggcart

I don't think this is true. Yes, there are some people who are poor and remain poor because of things like health and family problems. But many people could get themselves out of it, if only they were willing to work super hard and learn. Like non-stop - just work day after day after day (I've done that many days, and I'm not exactly poor, like BC I've always kept a nice cushion in the case anything bad happened). But they must also work smart. If they work at their $2/hr job super hard - it's not going to be of much use. They need to learn and actively seek ways to grow their income.

"Working harder" really isn't good advice, especially for people who are already doing so and can't get themselves up and out. — Heister Eggcart

And most people who I've seen claim they're working hard, aren't really working hard (obviously I don't know what Sapientia's case is like, so not speaking about him here). Like look - hard work means you don't even have time to eat properly. No breaks, no nothing. Wake up, work work work, sleep. Repeat.

How could the government possibly (and realistically) help you, in your opinion? — Agustino

I already gave you a big clue earlier when I mentioned the obstacles which stand in the way of me getting state help, although maybe I added that in the edit and you didn't see it. They could build more council housing, scrap or reform 'right to buy', put in place legislation to make it harder for private landlords to refuse tenants on housing benefit, increase the minimum wage - which is currently below the living wage, and has been for some time... Inflation and the cost of living have risen, but average pay increases have fallen, and are lagging behind. Britain has suffered a bigger fall in real wages since the financial crisis than any other advanced country apart from Greece.

There's nothing about being a Communist that suggests one should be a spendthrift.

I've often wished to drive, but don't because I can't see well enough. Vision in one eye took a dive this winter (effects of glaucoma) so I'm finding that even biking around town has become a bit more hazardous. Even if I were totally blind, there is fairly good public transportation where I live.

There's nothing about being a Communist that suggests one should be a spendthrift. — Bitter Crank

Yes, but you're quite financially savvy. You could be a capitalist :P lol

I've often wished to drive, but don't because I can't see well enough. Vision in one eye took a dive this winter (effects of glaucoma) so I'm finding that even biking around town has become a bit more hazardous. Even if I were totally blind, there is fairly good public transportation where I live. — Bitter Crank

Hmm okay, but was the vision problem something you had when you were younger? Or is it something that came with age?

Housing opportunities for the poor in the US are like those in the UK, I think. There is lots of up-market housing, and not a lot of affordable, down-market apartments being built. Public housing has very long waiting lists and are available first to the disabled and elderly. Section 8 housing vouchers are hard to come by (long waiting lists, like 10-15 years) and a lot of landlords won't rent to Section 8 because there are ceilings on rent.

They could build more council housing, scrap or reform 'right to buy', put in place legislation to make it harder for private landlords to refuse tenants on housing benefit, increase the minimum wage — Sapientia

Okay but council housing will be "the rich get richer" all over again. Who will build council housing? The people like Trump's father (btw did you know Trump's father made the bulk of his wealth based on government housing contracts? :P Like they say, no better way to do business than with the government, because the government is stupid and overpays [and if the developer pays a little commission fee in the right place, then they overpay a lot ;) ] )

Landlords will refuse you anyway if they know you're on housing benefit, even if there's a law that says no discrimination. They'll invent some reason to do it. That's the thing, the state is too slow for the stuff people come up with - it can never keep up! And practically speaking if a landlord refuses you, what practical steps will you take? Sue them? The law may be on your side, but enforcing the law is difficult in many cases, especially if you don't have the financial resources to pursue it.

I've had poor vision since I was born--congenital defect. The biggest vision improvement for me has been computer screens and the digital books; the screens on tablets allow for comfortably larger print, so in the last 7 years I have greatly increased the amount of reading I do. I've always read a lot, but small print was a hard slog. Like the big thick Shakespeare book when I was in college (1966) was very small print, and the notes were even smaller. I read them, but one learns better when one can read easily.

btw did you know Trump's father made the bulk of his wealth based on government housing contracts? — Agustino

btw did you know Trump's son-in-law is a slum lord, among other things? Are we surprised?

I've had poor vision since I was born--congenital defect. The biggest vision improvement for me has been computer screens and the digital books; the screens on tablets allow for comfortably larger print, so in the last 7 years I have greatly increased the amount of reading I do. I've always read a lot, but small print was a hard slog. Like the big thick Shakespeare book when I was in college (1966) was very small print, and the notes were even smaller. I read them, but one learns better when one can read easily. — Bitter Crank

Ahh I see! You are right, being able to change the size of text on computers or Kindles is an amazing feature. Many of the older people I know who have access to them love it because of that reason.

btw did you know Trump's son-in-law is a slum lord, among other things? — Bitter Crank

lol no. I know precious little about his family, the one curious fact I learned is that two of his children have converted to Judaism. But I don't see how that is related to the point I was making earlier :P

Well yes, I think if Sapientia wants more money, then he needs to work harder (more than fulltime). I certainly had weeks this past year when I worked 12hours+ day after day. — Agustino

There was a time not too long ago when I had two jobs and worked 7 days a week with no day off, and one of those jobs was full-time. When I first started my current job, I frequently worked 12 hour shifts over the busy Christmas period. And I'm always the first person that the management team turn to for overtime, because they know that I'm reliable and will say "yes" without hesitation. So I'm no stranger to hard-work if that's the kind of thing you mean.

But all of that is just a distraction, a shift of focus, from the role that government can and should play.

There was a time not too long ago when I had two jobs and worked 7 days a week with no day off, and one of those jobs was full-time. When I first started my current job, I frequently worked 12 hour shifts over the busy Christmas period. And I'm always the first person that the management team turn to for overtime, because they know that I'm reliable and will say "yes" without hesitation. So I'm no stranger to hard-work if that's the kind of thing you mean. — Sapientia

It is possible that you have been working hard, I never said otherwise. Again I don't know the facts, I would have to actually watch you. Because you could have had times when you just sat there doing little. I don't know you enough so I can't speak for you. Merely staying at work a long time isn't the same with hard work.

The other point as I said is that you need to do valuable work. What does valuable work mean? Well, if I'm a business owner, for me valuable work is work that brings in more money. Work that directly brings me more money (sales work) is easiest to quantify correctly. If I pay someone $10 and he brings me $20, then that's a good deal. But, for example, working as a secretary doesn't bring more money to the business. That's likely to be lower paid, than someone doing my advertisements, which bring in a lot of business and hence money. Working as a cashier is likely to again be lower paid. It doesn't get me more money. All that it does is convert that money that is already in my shop into my income (not a big deal - I've already done the hard work of attracting that money to the shop in the first place).

Because you could have had times when you just sat there doing little. — Agustino

I get paid per hour. Whether I use that time to work really hard or just sit there doing little, I'll still get paid the same. So what's your point exactly?

I get paid per hour. Whether I use that time to work really hard or just sit there doing little, I'll still get paid the same. So what's your point exactly? — Sapientia

That is irrelevant to me, because you may get paid doing nothing, but I wouldn't call that hard work. The question was whether you're working hard, not whether you're at the job for many hours.

I don't care. I work for the money, not because it's an opportunity to work hard.

I don't care. I work for the money, not because it's an opportunity to work hard. — Sapientia

I think you should care, because if you're not using that time effectively, then you're wasting the most precious resource. I don't know what your work is like, but if you find you have a lot of time when you're not doing much, then use that time to learn something. Bring in a magazine/book, etc. with you. There is a danger with working for a long time (many hours) and getting little work done in that time - your mind can start feeling good, like "man I'm really puttin' the hours in, this is great!". But the truth is you'd just be throwing that time away if you're only actually working like 30% of it.

Like look - hard work means you don't even have time to eat properly. No breaks, no nothing. Wake up, work work work, sleep. Repeat. — Agustino

This is extreme. One can be a hard worker without also being a walking zombie.

This is extreme. One can be a hard worker without also being a walking zombie. — Heister Eggcart

Yes but if you're starting very low (poor) there's no other choice. Unless you want to remain poor. You need to be willing to do what others aren't.

I don't believe being a practicing lawyer requires appreciation of the glory of God's favorite country, these United States. Perhaps you should have become one after all. — Ciceronianus the White

I am exactly where I want to be, in life and circumstances, and I think that is saying something about the professional decision I made. Several years ago, when I was merely working for profit to get me by, I was profoundly miserable. In both, I have to deal with people difficulties, but I am capable of dealing rather cheerfully with such difficulties now because my job is fulfilling. I do believe that to honour your legal profession, you would require an appreciation of the jurisprudential principles that it upholds nationally and as you and I probably both know, there is a lot to be desired.

I've always been fond of the classics and ancient history as well, and do what reading on them that I can. — Ciceronianus the White

There is nothing as compelling to me as ancient and medieval history, especially religions and philosophy. When I had the chance to write a journal article on the syncretistic Near-Eastern religions, I had never been so happy as I combed through several European libraries until they kicked me out each night while researching on the subject. But, that would be an entirely selfish endeavour if I were to pursue it as a (academic) career. I felt compelled to push that desire aside as I pursued something more practically worthwhile.

I think you should care, because if you're not using that time effectively, then you're wasting the most precious resource. I don't know what your work is like, but if you find you have a lot of time when you're not doing much, then use that time to learn something. Bring in a magazine/book, etc. with you. There is a danger with working for a long time (many hours) and getting little work done in that time - your mind can start feeling good, like "man I'm really puttin' the hours in, this is great!". But the truth is you'd just be throwing that time away if you're only actually working like 30% of it. — Agustino

You're encouraging me to risk getting myself in trouble for reading a book or magazine in work-time? I work in retail, and that's a highly inappropriate suggestion, just as it would be in countless other jobs. And no, I think that working hard for it's own sake is pretty dumb. I do tend to work hard, most of the time. But that's because it's in my interest to do so for various reasons, like my chances of keeping my job, getting more contracted hours, or getting promoted. Ultimately, it's about the money.

the one curious fact I learned is that two of his children have converted to Judaism. — Agustino

Kushner married Ivanka Trump, daughter of businessman and U.S. president Donald Trump, in a Jewish ceremony on October 25, 2009. They are Modern Orthodox Jews, keep a kosher home, and observe the Jewish Sabbath.Jared and Ivanka have three children, a girl and two boys. In 2017 federal disclosures suggested Kushner and his wife had assets worth at least $740 million. — WIKIPEDIA

So, love is the cause, I guess. Or $740 million at first sight.

So, love is the cause, I guess. Or $740 million at first sight. — Bitter Crank

At that level, most marriages are strategic anyway, even if there was love involved. To be honest, there's a certain degree of rational understanding that's required too. For example, I wouldn't marry a woman even if I loved her if she wasn't someone who also had, or could develop, the traits required to build a strong family.

But yeah, I have little reason to doubt that the Trump kids married purely out of financial interests.

You're encouraging me to risk getting myself in trouble for reading a book or magazine in work-time? — Sapientia

Well, I don't think it's inappropriate at all. Just ask the manager or whoever is in charge if there's any work you can do - if he says that currently there's nothing, then go read. I've worked part-time in a store while in high school, at the counter. There were times when there was no one buying anything so I was reading. Nobody had any problem with it, cause there just wasn't anything else I could be doing for them.

And no, I think that working hard for it's own sake is pretty dumb. — Sapientia

Not for its own sake, for the sake of making a good use of your time, and for the sake of results (which aren't necessarily monetary results).

But that's because it's in my interest to do so for various reasons, like my chances of keeping my job, getting more contracted hours, or getting promoted. Ultimately, it's about the money. — Sapientia

It's a fine line with things like promotions, etc. If you make your employer feel he can do anything with you, and you'll always accept it, then you're not likely to get promoted or get raises. If on the other hand he feels you're such a valuable asset that his business will somehow suffer if you leave him and go somewhere else [and he sees the possibility of you leaving as real] - that he can't very easily find someone like you - then he'll be more likely to promote you or give you a raise.

Money ultimately means nothing but perceived value. If you remember that, you can alter the money by altering your perceived value. As I said before, people with degrees for example have higher perceived values, even though, many of them, realistically, don't deserve it based on their knowledge and capabilities of actually delivering results.

Chorus
'Cause it's not just what you're born with
It's what you choose to bear
It's not how much your share is
But it's how much you can share
And it's not the fights you've dreamed of
But those you really fought
It's not just what you're given
It's what you do with what you've got

Read more: David Wilcox - It's What You Do With What You've Got

Well, I don't think it's inappropriate at all. Just ask the manager or whoever is in charge if there's any work you can do - if he says that currently there's nothing, then go read. I've worked part-time in a store while in high school, at the counter. There were times when there was no one buying anything so I was reading. Nobody had any problem with it, cause there just wasn't anything else I could be doing for them. — Agustino

No. Just, no. Why would I go out of my way looking for work? If I was after a promotion or something and trying to impress my boss, then yes. Otherwise no. And I find the reading a book thing to be pretty naïve. I already know what the reaction would be. I'm not stupid enough to ask permission or just do it with the assumption that it'll be okay with them. I'm sure there are some more laid back places that might allow that kind of thing at times, but mine ain't one of 'em. It's bad practice and shouldn't be encouraged.

Not for its own sake, for the sake of making a good use of your time, and for the sake of results (which aren't necessarily monetary results). — Agustino

It wouldn't be a good use of my time for me if I can slack off and get away with it, and I don't need to be told the benefits of working hard to make a good impression, which in turn will likely be to my advantage.

It's a fine line with things like promotions, etc. If you make your employer feel he can do anything with you, and you'll always accept it, then you're not likely to get promoted or get raises. If on the other hand he feels you're such a valuable asset that his business will somehow suffer if you leave him and go somewhere else [and he sees the possibility of you leaving as real] - that he can't very easily find someone like you - then he'll be more likely to promote you or give you a raise.

Money ultimately means nothing but perceived value. If you remember that, you can alter the money by altering your perceived value. As I said before, people with degrees for example have higher perceived values, even though, many of them, realistically, don't deserve it based on their knowledge and capabilities of actually delivering results. — Agustino

Why are we even having this conversation? I didn't ask for your input on how to best go about seeking a promotion, or for a lecture on the right mentality to have at work.

(Sorry if that was snappy. I haven't eaten properly all day, and have spent far too much time on here instead of getting things done).

Why would I go out of my way looking for work? — Sapientia

Well do you want to think of yourself as someone who doesn't want to work, and will cut corners if possible? Or do you want to be proud of yourself that you're always giving your best and doing high quality work?

It wouldn't be a good use of my time for me if I can slack off and get away with it — Sapientia

If I was after a promotion or something and trying to impress my boss, then yes. Otherwise no. — Sapientia

I'm not sure this is the right attitude to have. You shouldn't work just for the money or just for impressing the boss. You should take pride in your work - do it for yourself, not for your boss. With some of my clients for example, they ask me for X, and I give them 2X, with the additional X free. Why, what do I get? Well nothing pretty much - but it makes my clients happy, and it makes me glad I've done great work - that I put my heart and soul in it, and someone found it useful - I've helped another person.

Do it for yourself. Don't you want to think "Ah Sapientia is great! Whatever work he's given, he gives his best, and is committed to get great results for others!"?

Sure, there are some people out there who will try to abuse your kindness. But then it's their loss really. You should also consider not to turn into that which you hate. If you think your boss is abusing your work - then don't in turn abuse him by doing bad work, or cutting corners - don't be like him. You have your own values.

The other thing is, that people can catch on to attitudes. If you begrudgingly accept and do work, then even if you try to hide it, it still shows. Working for yourself - being proud of your work, and seeking to do your best - will show, and you'll end up doing better and being happier as well in the long run. At least that's been my experience. Take it or leave it.

Sorry if that was snappy. — Sapientia

No worries.