I was reading an unrelated news piece today and underneath it was a comment claiming you could be imprisoned in Britain for denying that a woman can have testicles (!). More of the scary totalitarian narrative. The government may try to kill you, so you need a gun, and they will imprison you for speaking 'common sense', so you need to fight political correctness. — Baden

Exactly.

As for the hypothetical of asking someone on the street— I’m very surprised to find anyone taking that seriously. I see a lot of “if you ask a person anything you’ll get hesitation,” and things of that nature. I think that’s the wrong approach. The right approach is that the question itself, and the hypothetical scenario, is stupid — as is every outgrowth of media-driven right-wing hysteria. The transgender stuff is just one more distraction— an easy topic that petty minds can agree on and act superior about.

It's cute when Lauren Boebert (American Republican representative) says that no one's gonna make her get the Fauci Ouchie, and there's plently more like her in office. — praxis

Just for the record, Boebert, MTG, Gaetz, Rand Paul are very reprehensible people for trying to derail lendlease to Ukraine. On the other hand, why should she get the fauci ouchie if she doesn't want to?

Diverse sources.

It's only a simple question if you have no concern at all for persons with gender dysphoria (et al) trying to make sense of their complicated feelings.
In short, if you're a fucking asshole - it's a simple question. — ZzzoneiroCosm

Why do you assume one's feelings should trump reality? And a person disagreeing to engage in a falsehood is automatically an asshole?

It sounds like you've never turned on Fox News. Alt-Right reality is now a caricature of itself. Turn on Fox and see - the simulacrum. — ZzzoneiroCosm

I think we have CNN/MSNBC for the left wing simulacrum and FOX for the right. Again, I'm not into simulacrums, but so far the left seems to be going further into the abyss, than the right.

It's interesting how a philosophy forum can sometimes nourish low-brow, Right wing populism. — Tom Storm

How's about a left-wing extremism/populism?

It's more likely because some stranger has just accosted them with an unclear and possibly provocative intent and they are not sure how to react. — Cuthbert

Checkmark.

An adult human female, of course.

.

Why do you assume one's feelings should trump reality? And a person disagreeing to engage in a falsehood is automatically an asshole? — M777

I am somewhat sympathetic to your concerns. As I see it, influential people are successfully changing the meaning --the 'proper' use -- of some basic words. This annoys a certain type of personality that doesn't like the rules changed without their permission. Very quickly it became a career-ending 'sin' to stubbornly use an old word in the old way. Outsiders happily conforming to the new use are maybe too quick to misunderstand all resistance as some kind of sexual fear. A person can really not mind radical transformations in gender expression...or even puberty blockers...while nevertheless resenting a stifling of critical thought on this issue. I think it's because of polarization that there's little room for nuance. I consider it risky to make even this point. I don't want to be assimilated by either complacent side of the issue that thinks everything is stupidly simple.

Just want to add, I'm not suggesting equivalence of all anti-PC crusades; some are more justified than others. What I am suggesting though is that there is nothing to be afraid of. PC ideas that stand the test of time do so because they're good ideas. And the anti-PC crowd have failed throughout history to stem the tide of 'political correctness' not because totalitarianism won but because they have consistently been on the wrong side of progress. Whether or not the 'PC' multi-faceted/nuanced definition of 'woman' will stand the test of time is yet to be seen. But if it does, it will become normalised because it is a good idea; or to put it in libertarian terms, it will flourish in the marketplace of ideas by outcompeting worse ideas. This process is not totalitarianism but its opposite. And if that's what you're afraid of, then your actual bogeyman is freedom. — Baden

The problem here is that normal, sane people just want to live their lives. While people with nothing else to do become activists and try to validate themselves by bullying others. So normal people would rather cave in an inch to the activists, rather than try to oppose them on every stupidity they come up with. That way inch by inch and one day the whole society can't understand how it got bullied a mile by a tiny minority of blue haired nutjobs.

A person can really not mind radical transformations in gender expression...or even puberty blockers... — igjugarjuk

I think a person not minding kids being put on puberty blockers is already deep into the crazy narrative.

For me, the rule of thumb would be "live as you like, but don't force it on others", such as if you want to wear a dress, that's up to you, but don't force others to pretend you are a woman, and, moreover, don't try grooming children into such nonsense.

Slavoj Žižek seems to have a better grasp of it, in my inexpert opinion. — praxis

How would you summarize Zizek's views on totalitarianism, and how does it relate to Desmet's ideas?

How's about a left-wing extremism/populism? — M777

What makes you think I don't consider them cunts too?

We should not use the term 'political correctness'. It is a euphemism for censorship and thereby it conceals its true nature.

It's a euphemism designed to protect the fragile views of those who enforce it.

That is the purpose of censorship: not to protect a society from dangerous ideas, but rather to protect dangerous ideas from being scrutinized.

After all, if one is convinced their views are so true and those of the other are so silly, then why fear debate?

Related to this, there is no difference between an 'internal thought police' and censorship. When individuals are stopped from expressing their genuinely held beliefs out of fear of punishment that's successful censorship.

Earlier in this thread this was posted:

They are not internally blocking or hindering their own thought. They are reacting in a socially appropriate way to a situation that that might lead to conflict and trying to decide the best way to handle it. They have been asked a question that is polarizing and divisive and they don't know who their audience is or how their answer might be used for or against them. — Hanover

This describes the climate for open debate in western society today.

The fact that people are afraid to discuss ideas is precisely the problem. It doesn't matter if topics are polarizing and divisive - such topics are actually the most important to discuss, so that people with different views do not move ever away from each other, but remain in dialogue.

And nowadays people have come to fear dialogue. They either fear that it may test their world views, or they fear the reprisals that come from testing someone else's.

That's not a normal state of being. It implies our world views have become too detached from nuance and reality, and we are subconsciously aware of it.

The problem here is that normal, sane people just want to live their lives. While people with nothing else to do become activists and try to validate themselves by bullying others. So normal people would rather cave in an inch to the activists, rather than try to oppose them on every stupidity they come up with. That way inch by inch and one day the whole society can't understand how it got bullied a mile by a tiny minority of blue haired nutjobs. — M777

Most of the normal, sane people I know sympathize with trans people who on the whole suffer far more serious bullying than anything 'a minority of blue haired nutjobs' ever inflicted on anyone. In fact, I don't see much evidence of this PC bullying of the 'man on the street'. And I don't see why it's stupid to, e.g. acknowledge the existence of trans women in recognition that being a woman has a psychological as well as a biological element to it. Seems to me most people either don't care about the issue, are willing to see the nuance there, or, at worst, just don't know what to say about it, and the real minority are those who find it scary, totalitarian, threatening etc. Again, I say there's nothing to be afraid of and people (generally) aren't afraid. But if you contend there is and they are, at least present some solid evidence of the 'bullying' you are talking about, e.g. in the form of surveys or other data. Something that at least might raise the OP beyond pure conjecture.

After watching how people in the street would immediately tense up, after being asked a simple question of 'what is a woman?' — M777

I would just respond with. ‘A human being,’ I don’t think I would feel tense.

Most of the normal, sane people I know sympathize with trans people who on the whole suffer far more serious bullying than anything 'a minority of blue haired nutjobs' ever inflicted on anyone. — Baden

One thing is to feel compassion towards a schizophrenic, who believes aliens are hiding under his bed, quite another is to 'affirm' is delusions or, more over, try to force others to 'affirm' them.

So again, most people don't have a problem if a dude walks around in a dress, problems start when they are forced to perceive him as a woman.

Ah, so you are a transphobe.

OP explained then.

Ah, so you are a transphobe. — Baden

Maybe you are veritaphobic - afraid of reality? Or you might be just bigoted towards people with traditional believes, so you try to smear them so that your bigotry would feel justified?

Isn't it great. "If I can't be a vile bigot then I am being bullied waaaaaa groupthink".

"Transphobia is a collection of ideas and phenomena that encompass a range of negative attitudes, feelings, or actions towards transgender people or transness in general. Transphobia can include fear, aversion, hatred, violence, anger, or discomfort felt or expressed towards people who do not conform to social gender expectations."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transphobia

I stated a fact, that's all.

yes, that's pretty much how those transactivists operate.

Lol "transactivists".

These stupid people just going around... existing. Ugh, activism is out of hand.

"Veritaphobia is a collection of ideas and phenomena that encompass a range of negative attitudes, feelings, or actions towards people stating objective truth or reality in general. Veritaphobia can include fear, aversion, hatred, violence, anger, or discomfort felt or expressed towards people who do not conform to politically correct expectations."

The fact that people are afraid to discuss ideas is precisely the problem. — Tzeentch

Isn't a healthy state of affairs if people are afraid to be racist, for example, or do you envision the ideal state where you can go up to someone, spout your racism, and expect appreciation for your openness?

I initially read this OP in the abstract, as if the lament was that people weren't more open in airing their views to random passersbys, but now it seems people just wish they could offend in peace without repercussion.

Yeah, that's not how the world ever worked

I'm not going to get into an argument about it. You've laid your cards on the table and they are there for everyone to make their own judgement about. The OP was already on shaky ground due to a lack of evidence to support its contentions. Now, the discussion has veered into transphobia there's nothing else to say from my point of view.

Isn't a healthy state of affairs if people are afraid to be racist, for example, or do you envision the ideal state where you can go up to someone, spout your racism, and expect appreciation for your openness? — Hanover

Originally I was talking about being open to thinking.
As for calling other people names, sane people seem to be very reserved here, yet lefties have totally no problem spewing their bigotry and labeling everybody they disagree with as a Nazi.

Now, the discussion has veered into transphobia there's nothing else to say imo. — Baden

I'd add that it is very amusing to watch people being unable to think outside of the concepts that have been installed into their heads.

don't like kids chemically castrated = transophobic = bad = * run in circles, yelling: Nazi! Nazi! *

and than those lefties wonder why people call them NPCs. :D

I don't see where anyone referred to you as a 'Nazi'. I'm leaving the conversation is all as there's nothing else to say. There's no thesis left to debate.

ok. not that you contributed anything very valuable to the discussion anyways.