infinity indeed does not exist - it's unreal, and so is the idea of infinite universe. — SpaceDweller

I never asserted the idea of an infinite universe.

Infinite time and space can have a beginning on one side. — Hillary

Yes, indeed, but this would imply that universe has a beginning but no end, which is logically possible, however saying that there is no beginning is logically impossible.

saying that there is no beginning is logically impossible. — SpaceDweller

Please explain. There is nothing inherently contradicting.

Yes, indeed, but this would imply that universe has a beginning but no end, which is logically possible — SpaceDweller

Why is that logically impossible?

I never asserted the idea of an infinite universe. — Jackson

Therefore we agree universe has a cause, that is a beginning?

Please explain. There is nothing inherently contradicting. — Jackson

See video and problem of Hillbert's hotel

Therefore we agree universe has a cause, that is a beginning? — SpaceDweller

I don't see this as the two options.

See video and problem of Hillbert's hotel — SpaceDweller

Not going to. Fare thee well.

infinity indeed does not exist - it's unreal, and so is the idea of infinite universe. — SpaceDweller

That's the question. A 5D quantum vacuum can be thermodynamical timeless and infinite in extent.

Why is that logically impossible? — Hillary

Universe without a beginning means a universe with infinite past events, which means there is no space for new event to add up to infinite number of events.

Not going to. Fare thee well. — Jackson

It's a nice video.

Universe without a beginning means a universe with infinite past events, which means there is no space for new event to add up to infinite number of events. — SpaceDweller

But what about a universe with a beginning and no end?

That's the question. A 5D quantum vacuum can be thermodynamical timeless and infinite in extent. — Hillary

sorry but I'm layman for these things.

But what about a universe with a beginning and no end? — Hillary

I think it's logically possible because time moves forwards, meaning events add up to finite number rather than infinite number which is the case for universe without beginning.

Not going to. Fare thee well. — Jackson

You disappointed me as a philosopher. :sad:

You disappointed me as a philosopher. :sad: — SpaceDweller

How is watching a video doing philosophy? I thought it was about presenting an argument?

sorry but I'm layman for these things. — SpaceDweller

It sounds more heavy than it actually is. Though the quantum vacuum is predicted to have infinite energy, and thus mass. But they made a failure which I will not get inti now. The 5D quantum vacuum is just a 4 dimensional space structure with virtual particles rotating in it. This is time going up and down, without forward or backward direction.

I thought it was about presenting an argument? — Jackson

Philosophy is more than arguing!

How is watching a video doing philosophy? I thought it was about presenting an argument? — Jackson

I present you my argument but it seems you do not understand it, the video elaborates my argument in detail.

Philosophy is more than arguing! — Hillary

Well, if it is about watching videos leave me out.

A "finite past" means it's caused at some finite point, you're contradicting — SpaceDweller

Two independent problems with that:
1. Existing at all times means it never DIDN'T exist, so how do you infer it was caused? Seems a nonsequitur.
2.By definition, nothing existed prior to it, therefore no prior causes are possible.

1. Existing at all times means it never DIDN'T exist — Relativist

Yes, why worries about infinity are irrelevant.

The cause can be acausal. Which raises the question, what caused the acausality lying beneath all phenomena? The always doesn't apply to a causeless timeless structure.

Two independent problems with that:
1. Existing at all times means it never DIDN'T exist, so how do you infer it was caused? Seems a nonsequitur.
2.By definition, nothing existed prior to it, therefore no prior causes are possible. — Relativist

I think you need to decide whether universe exists since ever, that is the universe is eternal or infinite or not?

It's impossible to argue anything unless you put straight what you mean.

Which raises the question, what caused the acausality lying beneath all phenomena? — Hillary

This is getting near to doomed notion that something can come out of a true lack of anything or 'Nothing'. If something pops out out, then was there was still something behind it, which is the capability for it and so that would be the something that is eternal.

Every notion ever gets down to an eternal something that is unmakeable and unbreakable, such as quantum fields are close to being. All further temporary forms, then, are but arrangements of the eternal something, as they would have to be, again such as 'particles' are directly the quanta of fields, not some new substance.

All further temporary forms, then, are but arrangements of the eternal something, as they would have to be, again such as 'particles' are directly the quanta of fields, not some new substance. — PoeticUniverse

Poetic!

But the eternal something can be eternal only wrt to the unidirectional thermodynamic time springing off from it. The 5D quantum vacuum itself has no direction in time. So eternal doesn't apply to it.

The 5D quantum vacuum itself has no direction in time. — Hillary

Why 5D?

To let the 3D space and thermodynamical time emerge in. So 4D spacetime. With appropiate hyperbolic curvature this explains dark energy. Of course there has to be a mechanism to keep matter confined to 4D. This can be taken care of if we consider a particle a 3d Planck-sized hypersphere, curled up from 3 dimensions in a 6d space. A Lorenz invariant Planck length! (The 3 extra dimensions being perpendicular to large 3 dimensions).

Obviously, but you are forgetting those lower dimensions. In 2D you dont even need the Planck scale hypersphere. Dark energy is the result of a 4D transmission of thermodynamical time from 3D AND 2D. Thus far your model hasn't accounted for that. With that addition you now get a recursive hyperbolic curvature which not only compensates for emergent 3D space and thermodynamical time playing hanky panky but also brings the Hickson-Ray variable to address the extra dimensions into perpendicularitude with each of the dimensions emerging after 3D space which by my count is 7D.
So indeed the question is, why 5D? And of course the answer is it isnt 5D, its 13D.

Yeah! Right on! Take another blow! Faaar out. :starstruck:

:lol:

You're right about the 7D space though! But that's for the two hyperbolic two 4D spaces connected by a 4D (7D...) Planck-width wormhole to fit the virtual particles on the vacuum in. So the 3D (6D) fits the 4D (7D). The two seemingly 3D (6D...) closed spatial structures inflate from the wormhole in hyperbolic, repulsive gravity space. Dark energy, matter-antimatter asymmetry, left-handedness, and a Lorenz invariant Planck length swept away in one stroke of genius! And all that cause I can't find a job! (And dont want too...sssshhhh!).

And you have a gift: Humor. Seldom seen no more!

Your source of confusion seems to be my usage of the term "eternal". "Eternal" is usually used to refer to something that exists infinitely long into the past and infinitely long into the future. However, we don't really know that the past is infinite, and there are reasonable arguments against an infinite past. So even if the past is finite, we can still use the term "eternal" to refer to something that exists at all times. See definition number 4 here:Eternal (def)

Also consider the fact that William Lane Craig believes the past is finite, but still regards God as existing eternally.

The cause can be acausal. — Hillary

That sounds self-contradictory.