Because a dumb material — Hillary

Have consistently denied your characterization. Nothing more to say.,

Why does the universe have to be caused? Not rhetorical. We know there is a universe, so why does it have to have a cause. — Jackson

because self-causation is unreal.

because self-causation is unreal. — SpaceDweller

If the universe was not caused then it is not self--caused.

Have consistently denied your characterization — Jackson

You think elementary particles are intelligent, not? Well, dunno. I don't go that far. And they certainly not could be the reason for their own existence.

If the universe was not caused then it is not self--caused — Jackson

It's caused not by itself but it has a reason for existence.

It's caused not by itself but it has a reason for existence. — Hillary

Like I said, I don't agree. No need to repeat ourselves.

Like I said, I don't agree. — Jackson

Why you don't agree? I haven't seen a rational argument? Just curious. Because the universe has some intrinsic intelligence? Which doesn't need gods?

Why you don't agree? I haven't seen a rational argument? Just curious. Because the universe has some intrinsic intelligence? Which doesn't need gods? — Hillary

Yes. No such thing as dumb matter.

Sounds reasonable. Basically not very different from my eternal intelligences in an eternal heaven, creating an eternally repeating temporary version of themselves. These eternal gods have no reason and your eternal intelligence of what I call creation has no reason, in your view. Agreement in differences!

existing at all times = eternal = infinite
correct?
if not what do you mean? — SpaceDweller

Not correct. A finite past with initial conditions entails existing at all times.

A finite past with initial conditions entails existing at all times. — Relativist

Please say more. For example, what do you mean by "finite past?"

If the universe was not caused then it is not self--caused. — Jackson

If the universe is not caused nor self-caused then what is it? eternal?

Not correct. A finite past with initial conditions entails existing at all times. — Relativist

A "finite past" means it's caused at some finite point, you're contradicting yourself.

If the universe is not caused nor self-caused then what is it? eternal? — SpaceDweller

No beginning, no origin.

No beginning, no origin. — Jackson

Why does that imply no creation? Creation isn't necessarily an act in spacetime. Even an eternal universe is created.

Even an eternal universe is created. — Hillary

No.

Why not?

No beginning, no origin. — Jackson

Which is absurd and here is why:

Which is absurd and here is why: — SpaceDweller

Can you tell me? Not watching the video.

Can you tell me? Not watching the video. — Jackson

If the universe did not have a beginning, then the number of past events in the history of the universe is infinite. But that’s a problem because the existence of an actually infinite number of past events leads to absurdity. It’s metaphysically impossible.

I know that video! Great one! Hilbert hotel. Wanna have a topfloor room!

Ghazali forgets that time can have infinite beginnings. So each universe has a beginning. Every beginning can emerge on a thermodynamically timeless state, like the quantum vacuum.

If the universe did not have a beginning, then the number of past events in the history of the universe is infinite. But that’s a problem because the existence of an actually infinite number of past events leads to absurdity. It’s metaphysically impossible.

Time does not predicate existence. Too vague? I can expand.

:up:

The issue in it's core is the following:

1. Universe is infinite
2. therefore the number of past events in history is infinite
3. therefore there is no space for any further events because infinity can't be used in mathematical operations. (Hillbert hotel problem)
4. Therefore universe is not infinite, that is it has a beginning and thus cause.

3. therefore there is no space for any further events — SpaceDweller

I get stuck here. Can you explain what the problem is?

how do you add to infinity please?
or how do you add an event to infinite amount of events?
This is the problem of Hillbert's hotel.

how do you add to infinity please?
or how do you add an event to infinite amount of events? — SpaceDweller

I think of time as indeterminate here. Not "infinite" but "indeterminate."

I think of time as indeterminate here. Not "infinite" but "indeterminate." — Jackson

What do you mean by time is "intermediate", we are talking about number of past events.
how many past events (of the universe) are there?

What do you mean by time is "intermediate", we are talking about number of past events.
how many past events (of the universe) are there? — SpaceDweller

Events don't have to be quantified by an ordering system. So I never would say infinity exists.

Time does not predicate existence — Jackson

Meaning?



Infinite time and space can have a beginning on one side.

Events don't have to be quantified by an ordering system. — Jackson

Of course they do, how else would you count the number of past events?

So I never would say infinity exists — Jackson

infinity indeed does not exist - it's unreal, and so is the idea of infinite universe.
My video explains the problem pretty well, I suggest you watch it.

Time does not predicate existence
— Jackson

Meaning? — Hillary

To predicate is to say all is true or universal. But all events are not merely time based.