On the basis of liking the gods and not liking them? — EugeneW

No, you know I am a fan EugeneW but I am moving towards the opinion that you are naturally mischievous.
You have a good sense of humour but there is a darker side I think.
I think you like the role of Devil's advocate. You may be a leg puller, a windup merchant.
Your theism could well be almost a caricature of theists you have encountered in your past.
You have no religion,

Deference is to much. — EugeneW

You have no deference to your god(s). You demonstrate none of the expected theistic behaviors, you merely CLAIM to believe in god(s) but you don't exemplify personal behaviors in support of your claim.
I am therefore left with the thought that you are role-playing/caricaturing, because you get a buzz out of mixing your empirical scientist/theist incompatibility. It may even be a pre-meditated act to caricature communication with god(s) to show how evanhellicals, for example, earn their money.
You may even be doing this subconsciously, without truly realising it.
You will probably claim this is just psychobabble on my part but I am not so sure.

No, you know I am a fan EugeneW but I am moving towards the opinion that you are naturally mischievous.
You have a good sense of humour but there is a darker side I think.
I think you like the role of Devil's advocate. You may be a leg puller, a windup merchant.
Your theism could well be almost a caricature of theists you have encountered in your past.
You have no religion, — universeness

Your opinion is right. Im naturally mischeveous. But so were the homonid gods! They laugh about me! Not sure what you mean by playing the devil's advocate. I play advocate of the gods.

You have no deference to your god(s). You demonstrate none of the expected theistic behaviors, you merely CLAIM to believe in god(s) but you don't exemplify personal behaviors in support of your claim. — universeness

All my behavior is in support of my claim. Like yours is to. The universe is a carbon copy of infinite eternal heaven. All creatures mortak carbon copies of heavenly gods.

I am therefore left with the thought that you are role-playing/caricaturing, because you get a buzz out of mixing your empirical scientist/theist incompatibility. It may even be a pre-meditated act to caricature communication with god(s) to show how evanhellicals, for example, earn their money.
You may even be doing this subconsciously, without truly realising it.
You will probably claim this is just psychobabble on my part but I am not so sure. — universeness

This is indeed psycho panto babble. The usual "unconscious motives" talk. I dont go for that. How can a message from the gods be premeditated? Theism is compatible with science. Science though offers no real explanation and the things they think explain (fundamental physics, evolution, etc.) are just a description. Not the ream reason why were here or why we do the things we do. My theology answers that. It's mysterious and understandable at the same time and not the science panto babble stories as told by scientists who think they know, but in reality unconsciously deceive themselves. I know better...

I think you like the role of Devil's advocate. You may be a leg puller, a windup merchant. — universeness

Now here you might be right! Though I dont believe in the devil.

↪universeness

F****** heaven is actually a pretty good description!

I think though that your view of gods is pretty subjective here! With such a god (God!) I can understand turning atheist! — EugeneW

I missed this one. I do not blame the god fable for the religions created by nefarious humans who wish to become rich and powerful by manipulating the primal fears of their fellow humans.
I was merely trying to highlight the pernicious intent of the majority of today's organised religions to @Gregory I am sure he is already aware of such but I think it's always an important point to stress.
I know that many many many religious folks and groups such as the salvation army perform acts of altruism on a daily or even hourly basis. I am just saddened by the fact that they see such acts, as originating from their theism instead of where it should come from, in my opinion, their humanism.
'Heavenly rewards AFTER YOU ARE DEAD!' weaponised mainly by the nefarious leaders of religious doctrines and is disseminated by their puppet facilitators. Like popes and priests or arch bishops and bishops and ministers or Ron LHubbards facilitators of scientology or ......the list is big.....far too freaking big......

How can a message from the gods be premeditated? — EugeneW

I am suggesting that the premeditation is your, not a gods.

I think you like the role of Devil's advocate. You may be a leg puller, a windup merchant.
— universeness


Now here you might be right! Though I dont believe in the devil — EugeneW

That about does it for me EugeneW. I can no longer take your claim to be a theist seriously.

instead of where it should come from, in my opinion, their humanism. — universeness

Why?

That about does it for me EugeneW. I can no longer take your claim to be a theist seriously. — universeness

This shows your unconscious fear of god!

Why? — EugeneW

Because humans should care about other humans because we are all humans and we can decide that it should be so, we don't need a god fable to provide our moral code or our ethics.

This shows your unconscious fear of god! — EugeneW

:rofl: total BS. Why would I fear that which does not exist?

That about does it for me EugeneW. I can no longer take your claim to be a theist seriously. — universeness

I don't take gods seriously too. But they give meaning to our existence and the universe.

I don't take gods seriously too. But they give meaning to our existence and the universe. — EugeneW

Perhaps for you, if you say so but then you are a leg puller, a windup merchant by your own admission so.......:naughty:

Because humans should care about other humans because we are all humans and we can decide that it should be so, we don't need a god fable to provide our moral code or our ethics. — universeness

Gods dont provide morals. They are just as good and bad as we are.

total BS. Why would I fear that which does not exist? — universeness

Why should you fear something that does exist? They dont want us to behave in any morally prescribed way. They dont want us to believe in them.

Perhaps for you, if you say so but then you are a leg puller, a windup merchant by your own admission so.......:naughty: — universeness

Yes! I even pull the legs of the gods! And they dont mind. What meaning has life without them? And I dont mean loving your fellow men or being happy walking in the park with my dog.

Why should you fear something that does exist? — EugeneW

What?? Lions exist, do you fancy a one-on-one fight with one?
Your fists and legs against its teeth and claws? No fear of such eh?
Samson is also a fable!

They dont want us to behave in any morally prescribed way. They dont want us to believe in them. — EugeneW

What non-existent beings want has no relevance at all (let's get ready to panto! Can you resist the temptation?)

What meaning has life without them? And I dont mean loving your fellow men or being happy walking in the park with my dog. — EugeneW

Two good examples, add to it anything else that human consciousness can come up with.
If you wait for your god to tell you you will have to do a lot more dreaming.
How about 'to pursue knowledge of that which we currently have no knowledge of,' and 'to boldly go where no one has gone before,' etc.

What?? Lions exist, do you fancy a one-on-one fight with one?
Your fists and legs against its teeth and claws? No fear of such eh?
Samson is also a fable — universeness

I mean: why should you fear gods?

What non-existent beings want has no relevance at all — universeness

If they didn't exist no.

How about 'to pursue knowledge — universeness

What's the use of that? Or better, the meaning? I already know how the universe works. So? No big deal...

I mean: why should you fear gods? — EugeneW

I don't as they don't exist but humans traditionally fear that which is presented to them as much more powerful than they are because such can kill them no matter what kind of resistance they can muster. it's the type of primal fear I have often referred to and its why some people turn to theism or religion to promise compliance with the perceived will of such ID manifestations. This is exactly what nefarious organised religious doctrines are able to manipulate and is the basic source of the divine right of kings and popes(a.k.a Roman Emperor). Such nasty humans promise to intercede between you and god so you will be looked after, mainly AFTER YOU ARE DEAD!

What's the use of that? Or better, the meaning? I already know how the universe works. So? No big deal... — EugeneW

That's not how it works, as well you know, (take off that windup merchant hat now and then), your hypothesis has not currently progressed from the posit stage. Your 'faith' in it has limited currency value.

What's the use of that? Or better, the meaning? — EugeneW

By doing so we can give more meaning and purpose to the Universe, instead of assigning such a responsibility to a nonexistent supernatural. As a human being, you need to take responsibility for your own existence and your own actions, stop scapegoating supernatural gods. What happens on this planet is down to human behavior not the behavior or perceived will of god(s).
Scapegoating god(s) is evidence that the human race still has a lot of growing up to do.
The word 'adult' is inappropriately awarded, in my opinion, it should have to be consistently earned through demonstration.

That's not how it works, as well you know, (take off that windup merchant hat now and then), your hypothesis has not currently progressed from the posit stage. Your 'faith' in it has limited currency value. — universeness

I know it's true. And it fits exactly the universe needed by the gods. It was a huge effort. The whole of the godkind was involved in finding the right two particles and the space for them to exist eternally and over and over again (where did I hear that before). The particles of love and hate evolving in the almost infinite scala of beings, organisms, creatures.

Why should you be afraid of such gods?

I know it's true. And it fits exactly the universe needed by the gods. It was a huge effort. The whole of the godkind was involved in finding the right two particles and the space for them to exist eternally and over and over again (where did I hear that before). The particles of love and hate evolving in the almost infinite scala of beings, organisms, creatures.

Why should you be afraid of such gods? — EugeneW

Let's try to reduce the amount of repetition between us.

By doing so we can give more meaning and purpose to the Universe, instead of assigning such a responsibility to a nonexistent supernatural — universeness

Why should gods imply handing over responsibility? You do the same: in the name of some universal non-existing being, the hydra universa.

Let's try to reduce the amount of repetition between us. — universeness

It's useless. You don't believe they are there. Whatever rows your boat. I know they're there...

By doing so we can give more meaning and purpose to the Universe — universeness

Why should we do that? What meaning and purpose does She demand of you?

You do the same: in the name of some universal non-existing being, the hydra universa. — EugeneW

No I don't, if you are referring to some kind of panpsychism then I have raised no mor that a small eyebrow twitch towards such. Your invoked image of a multi-headed nonexisting beast add nothing to your point.

It's useless. You don't believe they are there. Whatever rows your boat. I know they're there.. — EugeneW

If you agree it's useless then stop contributing to it. If you have no new points to raise and you don't think I have any new points for your consideration then you can do as I did earlier in this exchange and declare impasse. I remain a fan EugeneW, but based on this exchange, I am now convinced that in truth, your theism is even more speculative than my twitch towards panpsychism. Your theism just gnaws at you more due to your more, in my opinion. impetuous and mischievous nature.

No I don't — universeness

Yes you do. You said you think we are the tools of a universe trying to create new ones. That sounds even sillier than God.

Your theism just gnaws at you more due to your more, in my opinion. impetuous and mischievous nature. — universeness

Atheist panto talk. On the same level as ordinary theist panto talk used by jehova freaks.

Why should we do that? What meaning and purpose does She demand of you? — EugeneW

We do that which we are capable of doing as an act of common will. There is no Universal identity based on an anthropomorphic she, there are only the lifeforms produced by naturalism.

Again, this is repeat mode. I have already clarified my stance on panpsychism and cosmopsychism. You were the main contributor to my thread on it so you know fine well that I have no more that a passing interest in it. My main view at present is that I see little value in talking about 'outside of the Universe.'
I am a fan of string theory and Mtheory but I have no powerful loyalty to any origin theory for the Universe.

Atheist pano talk. On the same level as ordinary theist panto talk used by jehova freaks. — EugeneW

Fair enough, if that's how you feel.

Never forget Gregory the religious peddlers that will preach to you about the rewards you will receive AFTER YOU ARE DEAD!
Meantime you must comply with their instruction based on the claim that they are gods messengers.
Commandment number 1, their prime directive is your responsibility to support them, maintain their status/wealth/positions of power and be willing to give up your life in defense of them.
Also, you must donate some of your earnings to them, even if doing so means a poorer life for you and your family. Don't concern yourself with that! Your reward and your family's rewards will happen in f****** heaven! — universeness

I'd come here knowing there would less, but much smarter people than at Twitter, a compromise. And fair enough I'm treated like a theist who has aimlessly wandered into an enemy camp. But the arrogance that leads to presumptions like this above is unbelievable. I've never been to a church service in my life, don't have a religious bone in my body, and have been aware of evangelist types since the 70's (the documentary 'Marjoe', Jim Bakker in the 80's). And, from someone who believes in a Kennedy assassination conspiracy. For Christ's sake!

impetuous and mischievous nature — universeness

That's the nature of most gods. Some homonoid gods have lost that. Their aid in creation led to current day shit in the world.

Fair enough, if that's how you feel — universeness

It's not about how I feel but about your defense of atheism. It levels the religious propaganda. You state there is/are no god(s). You relocate creation to creation itself. You have a responsibility towards the universe. Sounds like worshiping a god.

. For Christ's sake! — Gregory A

:lol: