I'm thinking cause they're choleric -- easily irritated. So, your posts are doing their job just fine.My practical question for this thread, is why do Anti-Metaphysics Trolls, waste their valuable on-line time, trying to defeat something that they assume to be already dead, and although perhaps a ghostly nuisance, cannot by their definition, make any difference in the Real world? — Gnomon
— Gnomon
"Metaphysical speculation" that proposes suppositions and/or interpretions which are inconsistent with, or contrary to, facts of the matter tend to mystify (i.e. beg questions) much more so than they explicate (i.e. raise unbegged, probative questions). 'Speculation itself' isn't objectionable; however, conceptual nonsense (i.e. just making any "what if"-shit up) pawned-off as "speculation' is vacuous sophistry, and one function of philosophizing is to exorcise sophistries – including, especially, one's own. Read Plato's early "Socratic" dialogues, Gnomon. Read Lucretius & Sextus Empiricus. Read Hume. Read Peirce & Dewey. Read Rosset & Meillassoux. :fire:Metaphysical speculators are merely harmless drudges . . . No? — Gnomon
however, conceptual nonsense (i.e. just making any "what if"-shit up) pawned-off as "speculation' is vacuous sophistry, — 180 Proof
Isn't physics subtly deceptive? It assigns objective existence to weird things like Calabi-Yau manifolds, superstring landscapes, mass-energy equivalence, flux tubes, degenerate vacua and vacuum expectation values, virtual particles, good and bad ghost particles, Goldstone bosons being eaten by massless vector particles, AdS/CFT correspondence and related emergence of gravity, Norton domes, local gauge invariance, adiabatìc cooling, flavored and colored particles, non-local entanglement, collapse of the wavefunction, loop gravity, soft hair horizons, not to speak of mathematical stuff made up and accompanying them. — EugeneW
Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. — Richard Lewontin
And anything non-physical is un-real, hence un-important. — Gnomon
My practical question for this thread, is why do Anti-Metaphysics Trolls, waste their valuable on-line time, trying to defeat something that they assume to be already dead, and although perhaps a ghostly nuisance, cannot by their definition, make any difference in the Real world? Metaphysical speculators are merely harmless drudges . — Gnomon
Defenders of the Scientism "faith" are quick to question the intelligence, education, & motives of those who dare to openly discuss such taboo topics as Metaphysics & Mental States, without giving due obeisance to the canon scriptures of "Science", envisioned as a centralized authoritative institution. — Gnomon
The jealous God dies hard. — Wayfarer
We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs — Richard Lewontin
its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life — Richard Lewontin
My practical question for this thread, is why do Anti-Metaphysics Trolls, waste their valuable on-line time, trying to defeat something that they assume to be already dead, and although perhaps a ghostly nuisance, cannot by their definition, make any difference in the Real world? — Gnomon
Ha! My questions above are not intended to mock the trolls, but to open a two-way dialog on, what I take to be the purpose of Philosophy : to study Human Culture in all its manifestations. The "soft" sciences scrutinize narrow segments of Humanity, but Philosophy can take a more holistic, and interdisciplinary, perspective. That encyclopedic worldview includes the physical phenomena of the world, but leaves the narrowly-focused investigations to specialists.So - you’re trolling the trolls? — Wayfarer
Perhaps you project, sir. There are approximately 450 to 500 million nonbelievers worldwide, including both positive and negative atheists, or roughly 7 per cent of the global population. The 'black tide' is very much still in, as always.. . . .
Genuine speculation is less annoying and perhaps less common than hawking the next flavor of informagical kool-aid. — lll
:clap: :100:1. My time is not valuable. My on-line time is worth even less. Wrong assumption.
2. We, Anti-Metaphysics Trolls, don't want to defeat something that's dead. We want to stop the proliferation of other people believing that something dead is something alive.
3. Thoughts can make a difference in the world. Stupid thoughts increase the stupidity level all over the land. I don't like to see that — god must be atheist
Me too. :up:not a "negative" Atheist — Gnomon
My practical question for this thread, is why do Anti-Metaphysics Trolls, waste their valuable on-line time, trying to defeat something that they assume to be already dead, and although perhaps a ghostly nuisance, cannot by their definition, make any difference in the Real world? Metaphysical speculators are merely harmless drudges . . . No? — Gnomon
:fire: Thus, all the question-begging woo-of-the-gaps sophistry called to account (not "trolled").... when you talk to someone and you ask 'why' three times shortly after each other, you will incur their irritation. The reason for that is that you have reached the level of presuppositions and assumptions which most just accept as 'clear' and for which they cannot give any further account. In my view metaphysics ... interrogates what you consider the basic structures of reality. They become hard to articulate and therefore cause irritation when you force someone to. — Tobias
I've recently experienced counter-productive dialogues with posters who seem to have an anti-metaphysics agenda. — Gnomon
How do you get quotes that have a direct link to a source outside the forum? — T Clark
Took me years to work that out! Here’s a hint: select an instance and click QUOTE and you will see how it’s done. — Wayfarer
My questions above are not intended to mock the trolls, but to open a two-way dialog on, what I take to be the purpose of Philosophy : to study Human Culture in all its manifestations. — Gnomon
Thus, all the question-begging woo-of-the-gaps sophistry called to account (not "trolled") — 180 Proof
Yes. That's why I refer to that anti-heretical attitude as Scientism. It's an absolute Either/Or, Win/Lose, Self/Other, My-way-or-the-highway worldview. It violates Aristotle's definition of Virtue in terms of Moderation. "The Art of Balance in an Age of Extremes”. Authoritarian Trolls have been trying to stop the proliferation of diverse views for millennia*1. For example Fascism & Communism are opposing views on how best to govern a populace of "stupid" people. Likewise, orthodox Scientism (love of dogma) is an opposing force to heterodox Philosophy (love of wisdom), competing for the minds of smart people.2. We, Anti-Metaphysics Trolls, don't want to defeat something that's dead. We want to stop the proliferation of other people believing that something dead is something alive.
You asked a question and I answered your question. That's all. Run with it. — god must be atheist
Nobody said Metaphysics is easy. What Anti-Metaphysicians object to is not rational Philosophy, but irrational Faith. Unfortunately, they don't see the distinction. All the more reason to keep chipping away at the "irritation". Besides, the Trolls are not forced to engage in Metaphysical dialogs. They are like Quixotic Crusaders looking for windmill dragons to slay. :joke:In my view metaphysics does just that, it interrogates what you consider the basic structures of reality. They become hard to articulate and therefore cause irritation when you force someone to. — Tobias
Einstein's Fallacy of Non-Physical Yet Physical Space
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321080710_Einstein%27s_Fallacy_of_Non-Physical_Yet_Physical_Space — Gnomon
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