If those were the only choices, and there was even a chance that Goebbels would be less damaging than Hitler, or that there would be even a slightly better chance of stopping atrocities with him in power, then yes of course. — Xtrix

A perfectly viable choice might be to shoot both in the head. Nonetheless it is good to know that in a fight between Goebbels and Hitler, you would have Goebbels' back. Very cool and normal.

Almost like the claim that I compared Joe Biden to the civil rights movement. :chin: — Xtrix

Biden is indeed better than Trump on the environment, and the pushing of environmental activists — like the Sunrise Movement — will continue, despite predictable setbacks. The civil rights movement had many setbacks as well — Xtrix

Are you OK?

Biden is indeed better than Trump on the environment, and the pushing of environmental activists — like the Sunrise Movement — will continue, despite predictable setbacks. The civil rights movement had many setbacks as well
— Xtrix

Are you OK? — StreetlightX

Are you? Let me help: Notice the "and." Then: "The pushing of environment activists -- like the Sunrise Movement -- will continue, despite predictable setbacks." I wonder if the next sentence about the civil rights movement was referring to Joe Biden, an individual, or the Sunrise Movement, also a movement.

Could have been the one that makes no sense whatsoever. Guess I was unclear. :roll:

A perfectly viable choice might be to shoot both in the head. — StreetlightX

Yeah, that's brilliant. Problem solved. Here, let me try: let's shoot them all in the head and start anew. Excellent. Satisfying.

Now back to the real world.

Guess I was unclear. :roll: — Xtrix

Mmm, your point wasn't at all that one must, despite it all, vote for Joe Biden, because not doing so would be like giving up on the civil rights movement. Mm-hm, not one bit.

Now back to the real world. — Xtrix

Where one can not vote for Biden, joyfully and with panache. A very cool world (Here comes the bit where you tell me you don't simp for Biden. I can't wait. I imagine it will be something like: "you can critique him all you like - you just can't do anything whatsoever to hold him materially accountable for the suffering he causes").

I'm thinking he thinks:

1. No progress has ever been made;
or
2. Any progress made occurred as the result of magic;
or
3. Any progress made occurred as the result of people abiding his advice.

I haven't seen any of #3, so he must be rolling with #1 or #2? I'd ask, but every time I engage, I find that goodness dies a little bit, and I think that is part of his plan.

Mmm, your point wasn't at all that one must, deapite it all, vote for Joe Biden, because not doing so would be like giving up on the civil rights movement. — StreetlightX

That wasn't the point, correct. The point is that, like the civil rights movement, the Sunrise Movement continues on, whether we take the five minutes to vote against the worst every four years or not. Setbacks are going to occur either way.

What we don't do is what you're promoting: everything's the same and activism is stupid. Brilliant.

you just can't do anything whatsoever to hold him materially accountable for the suffering he causes"). — StreetlightX

Imagine thinking that withholding a vote is the only way to hold someone to account. :rofl:

Any progress made occurred as the result of people abiding his advice. — James Riley

He has no advice. No alternatives, no solutions, no strategy. It's stupid to vote against the worst candidate, because both candidates are awful. Activism is stupid, voting (or not voting) is paramount -- that'll teach 'em. Typical establishment propaganda.

Imagine thinking that withholding a vote is the only way to hold someone to account. — Xtrix

Have you met American politicians? Or frankly, politicians in general? You keep harping on about the 'real world' - yet it's clear you've never seen one.

Have you met American politicians? — StreetlightX

Yes. And they don't give a fuck about non-voters like you, who stay home because, you know, "both parties bad."

And I suppose they give soooo many fucks about people who will vote for them no matter what too. That other very well known mechanism of accountability: unconditional support. Gosh that must have them quaking in their boots. I hope they'll be OK. I mean it's almost as if this enables them to 'not give a fuck' about non-voters. As if this were actively toxic to democracy. So crazy to think about imagine if someone did that ha ha.

unconditional support. — StreetlightX

Has nothing to do with support.

Oh my mistake unconditional votes which totally don't count as unconditional support as far as they're concerned ha ha what a big difference silly me.

unconditional votes — StreetlightX

Not unconditional.

What are the conditions? Apparently "not killing the planet" isn't one of them. Maybe like: they can kill the planet, but they have to be modest about it?

:yawn:

Somehow it always devolves into faces. I get it I guess, I'd do the same if I had nothing to say. Maybe throw in a hilarious Zizek quip to really give it that Xtrix stamp of predictably.

He has no advice. No alternatives, no solutions, no strategy. It's stupid to vote against the worst candidate, because both candidates are awful. Activism is stupid, voting (or not voting) is paramount -- that'll teach 'em. Typical establishment propaganda. — Xtrix

:100:

I’m confused. Do you two approve of what @StreetlightX pointed out the Biden administration is up to with oil drilling? Why are we talking about Trump at all here? Doesn’t Biden deserve to be roasted for this?

Do you two approve of what StreetlightX pointed out the Biden administration is up to with oil drilling? — Srap Tasmaner

I don't approve of Street.

Why are we talking about Trump at all here? — Srap Tasmaner

I don't think I have been.

Doesn’t Biden deserve to be roasted for this? — Srap Tasmaner

Nope. When Michelle Obama says to go high when they go low, I disagree. I go right down there with them. Thus, I'm taking a page from their book. You know, to see how they like it. I'm going to start holding church services on Sunday for our lord and savoir Joe Biden. He can do no wrong. Any alleged wrong is a Q conspiracy drummed up by the Brown Shirts. I fully expect them to rig the election against Joe. All their fake news will be trotted out to hurt poor Joe.

They wanted to divide the country and I'm just giving them their wish.

But the worst thing are those Putin troops who pretend to be neutral, trying to get the Democrats to stay home and not vote. You know, because Democrats are really just stooges for the Republicans. At least that is what I glean from Street. Pray tell: have you ever heard him offer a suggestion? Besides "It's all futile."

Back to philosophy: Since I am no expert, I thought that maybe Street was an adherent to a principle I don't understand. I thought maybe "cynicism." I don't really know if that is a thing, a term of art in the philo community, but I thought it might be. So I thought maybe he was just doing that. But so far I have not found any evidence of him doing to the other side what he does to the Democrats, so I think his actually just a Republican trying, disingenuously, to suppress the vote. I could be wrong, but I'm not seeing any evidence to the contrary. Maybe you know him better.

I would love your invitation to quit this thread. Never mind, I'll bow out anyway.

have you ever heard him offer a suggestion? — James Riley

Yeah, I have. I know exactly what he believes in, and what I assume he gets up to when he’s not posting here. So what? What does who he is or what he’s said before have to do with whether Biden should be auctioning offshore drilling rights? He shouldn’t be. SX just pointed out that he was. And SX disapproves, as do I, for all the good it does. But we are here just to talk, and, you know, pursue truth. And the topic of the discussion is Joe, not SX.

Yeah, I have. — Srap Tasmaner

Well I haven't. And I've asked.

If you read the thread, you'll also find I've not been arguing Trump. Further, while I haven't been arguing Biden either (in a Biden thread), I've only been arguing party (D&R) issues in response to Street. When I got nothing out of him, it became about his failure to offer suggestions (isn't that part of your search for truth?). Thus, the complaint about him just trying to suppress the vote because he's a Republican plant pretending to be neutral. I called him out.

And:

I'm thinking he thinks:

1. No progress has ever been made;
or
2. Any progress made occurred as the result of magic;
or
3. Any progress made occurred as the result of people abiding his advice.

I haven't seen any of #3, so he must be rolling with #1 or #2? I'd ask, but every time I engage, I find that goodness dies a little bit, and I think that is part of his plan. — James Riley

But you keep talking with him in your pursuit of truth. I wish you all the best. I'm out.

Doesn’t Biden deserve to be roasted for this? — Srap Tasmaner

Sure— just as he deserves to be roasted for asking OPEC to increase oil production, which I pointed out weeks ago.

The roasting must take place on democratic party approved bounds only. Just enough for a semblance of dissent, but under no circumstances must his hold on power be threatened by any means. Only inconsequential roasting allowed. Talk, but no action please (not a request, dissenters will be flamed). 3... 2... 1... aannnnd -

The roasting must take place on democratic party approved bounds only. — StreetlightX

No.

Sure— just as he deserves to be roasted for asking OPEC to increase oil production, which I pointed out weeks ago. — Xtrix

Probably trying to keep inflation down.

The Biden they voted for

Question:

Given the assassination of Jamal Khashoggi and Saudi Arabia’s involvement in the civil war in Yemen, what changes, if any, would you make to U.S. policy toward Saudi Arabia?

Biden:

I would end U.S. support for the disastrous Saudi-led war in Yemen and order a reassessment of our relationship with Saudi Arabia. It is past time to restore a sense of balance, perspective, and fidelity to our values in our relationships in the Middle East. President Trump has issued Saudi Arabia a dangerous blank check. Saudi Arabia has used it to extend a war in Yemen that has created the world’s worst humanitarian crisis, pursue reckless foreign policy fights, and repress its own people. Among the most shameful moments of this presidency came after the brutal Saudi murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, as Trump defended not the slain U.S. resident but his killers. America’s priorities in the Middle East should be set in Washington, not Riyadh.

President Trump’s first overseas trip was to Saudi Arabia. As President, I will rally the world’s democracies and our allies in the Free World. We will make clear that America will never again check its principles at the door just to buy oil or sell weapons. We should recognize the value of cooperation on counterterrorism and deterring Iran. But America needs to insist on responsible Saudi actions and impose consequences for reckless ones. I would want to hear how Saudi Arabia intends to change its approach to work with a more responsible U.S. administration.

https://www.cfr.org/article/presidential-candidates-saudi-arabia


The Biden they got

Biden administration notifies Congress of $650 million arms sale to Saudi Arabia

This sale is the second to Saudi Arabia under the Biden administration, the first was for $500 million. Congress has 30 days to review the sale and the sale may face pushback from Democrats on the Hill.

No doubt you had no such reservations about Trump's $110 billion dollar arms deal with the Saudis back in '17. Nor his more recent $23 billion dollar one to the UAE. Not that it's a competition. Arms sales are a happily bipartisan phenomenon, because the US economy relies on the rest of the world killing and brutalizing each other on its behalf. The American standard of living is underwritten by the blood of the rest of the world, whose shedding it enthusiastically and materially enables and encourages. Par the the course for a terrorist state of which Biden just so happens to be the current figurehead of.

But yes, Biden, like his predecessor, is a direct material supporter of Yemini genocide, which makes support for Biden among those who cosplay as leftists all the more pathetic. Apart from "not killing the Earth", "not directly supporting genocide" is, apparently, also not one of the conditions by which Biden fanboys take into account when lending their *wink wink* totally not unconditional support to him.

No, I had no such reservations. I just like pointing out that Biden’s campaign was a lie. But it’s true; the sooner the world learns to defend itself and stops sucking at America’s tit the better. You sleep cozy knowing that American military protects you while you sleep, and I wish it wasn’t so.

But it’s true; the sooner the world learns to defend itself and stops sucking at America’s tit the better. — NOS4A2

America relies on its tits getting sucked without which its rural economies - and by extension its entire economy - would collapse. So much so that it actively fights against efforts at international self-governance. Death overseas is the constitutive condition for American life at home. It's a nation that holds itself hostage, all the better to hold the rest of the world hostage in turn. All the better still to serve its arms dealing capitalist masters. Trump, Biden, and other subservient lackies of the American warfare state are quite happy to let this state of affairs - for which they are rewarded handsomely - metastasize indefinitely.

Australia is one of the world’s biggest importers of American weaponry, though apparently it would rather use its force to govern its own citizenry than for defense. But of course the people there gave up their right to own arms long ago. Now they have no choice but to beg for American protection, lest it become a communist or Islamist satellite. What is left of them? Who knows? Who really cares?