I see this policy as a naive, incoherent day dream of a populist. It has some nice sounding phrases in it and it might be something which an enlightened society could achieve. But it is so out of touch with the reality in the U.K, that it smacks of insanity. Indeed the Tory government we have had for the last eleven years has moved us in the opposite direction, to a low wage, deregulated, over leveraged, imbalanced economy. With hollowed out and struggling public services and support mechanisms.

With the twin crises of COVID and Brexit, we are staring at an economic rollercoaster ahead of us. With a deluded, incompetent government in denial of the depth of the issues coming home to roost day by day.

Like a slow motion car crash, it’s difficult to avert one’s gaze.

I haven’t had time yet to watch the video. But I can answer the question it poses. Johnson can’t afford a trade war. He is becoming weaker and weaker and may become a helpless witness to an economic collapse of his own making.

243012770_1310505819406426_3879163455009871205_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=110474&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_eui2=AeEVEHidSEdvxR3EWqD7WIJHte2dD0oZNIC17Z0PShk0gPcKFJIhESxJcphu9Wz8100&_nc_ohc=gyAI3_QzvfcAX-TY4FT&_nc_ht=scontent.fmid3-1.fna&oh=58c08d5d8d717355094ac0e9fd415718&oe=617B1780 — The Opposite

Come again? :D

the image appears for me :chin: :chin: :chin:

No quick UK response to the EU's compromise attempts re the NI protocol... Presumably Frost daren't welcome it as it doesnt go all the way, but daren't reject it as it does greatly reduce the amount of red tape for GB to NI exports. The sticking point still seems the oversight of the ECJ. Hopefully that won't poison the whole deal..
It was clear the EU would have to abandon their stance of 'you signed it, so it must be fine'; which they did in the light of NI citizens' complaints of course, not the UK govt's. Boris can chalk that up as a minor win, the EU as a climbdown..

Nice article, explaining simply the inevitable result of our Tory Brexit.

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/brexit-means-brexit-theresa-mays-slogan-was-truer-than-she-knew

I am alas old enough to remember the good old days when the economy was tanking and we were applying to join the EEC as then was, and DeGaulle kept notoriously saying "Non." How right he turned out to be.

But the UK economy was well fucked to the extent that cash limits were set on foreign holidays because the currency was nosediving. We had already gone from being the richest economy in the world to this parlous state and Europe eventually rescued us. It's the period of history that Brexiteers forget or ignore in favour of the good old days of Empire and children down the mines.

Nice article, explaining simply the inevitable result of our Tory Brexit. — Punshhh

In a way Brexit has just showed the consequences of a globalized economy then made to de-globalize. The effects are easy to see...in hindsight. The root cause is that nobody defends globalism, hence either right-wing populism or left-wing populism (that can happen too, take the case of Venezuela as the example) takes over and simply creates a far bigger mess than was to be solved in the first place.

With Brexit it's partly the same as with COVID-19. Suddenly implemented huge restrictions basically cause these complex delivery systems to falter, which are the true foundations that globalization depends on. The basic problem is that the business environment made to focus on the next quarter just looks at what is profitable in the next quarter, again an idea for a globalized world. Hence with travel restrictions for example whole fleets of new passenger aircraft with long service life ahead were sold to scrap. To simply have the planes sitting on the ground and to move them a bit that the tires won't become flat was deemed far too costly. As if to rent or simply make make a concrete/asphalt parking area would be too costly for planes that is basically costs 100 million dollars to replace per item. Better to scrap the planes, get the recycling money and have no worries about the basically planned frenzy for new planes...and higher flight fares of today and tomorrow.



Perhaps a better example of this insanity can be seen in the markets when oil price went negative: people were literally giving money to people take physical oil, because naturally they weren't actually thinking of having the physical stuff, but just playing in the casino with the resource.

Brexit was this kind of experiment with populist democracy that simply made underlying problems apparent: that the UK had relied on a large foreign workforce. Brexit, In my view, was the dear child of the UKIP where then opportunist tories jumped on the populism train.

Wasn't Brexit about this? (Perhaps on the background there ought to have been a mass of truck drivers...)


Perhaps to defend the EU or any economic integration, we should simply shut all trade between countries for a month or two in the winter and then put the populist nationalists to solve the problems by purely domestic solutions. Because...globalization and free trade are so bad. The multi-national corporations are so evil. So when poorer people literally start seeing hunger and rationing food is implemented when in other places the problem is how to get rid of the produce before it becomes a safety hazard, we can all rejoice how good it is to be self reliant and buy only local produce. And how bad globalization and economic integration is.

Yep.

Yes I totally agree. It’s interesting that they don’t mention the so called problems caused by globalisation. Or in U.K. 42 years of Tory incompetence. But blame false enemies, which the educated can see don’t exist.

I do think though that there we’re issues with high rates of immigration between 2004 and 2016 and this made it easy for UKIP to employ xenophobia. However there were solutions to this issue without leaving the EU, but it would require competent government to achieve it. Tory incompetence wasn’t up to the job.

@Punshhh thoughts?

I do think though that there we’re issues with high rates of immigration between 2004 and 2016 and this made it easy for UKIP to employ xenophobia. However there were solutions to this issue without leaving the EU, but it would require competent government to achieve it. Tory incompetence wasn’t up to the job. — Punshhh

Well, they were not so incompetent to lose the elections. Which likely they can thank the opposition.

If someone can be gloomy it is Tony Blair and the Blairites, who are (I guess?) still bitterly opposed in the labor party. So bitterly opposed, that the Labor lost the election when by all means it should have won. As if social democracy that speaks to the masses and wins elections is so bad. But of course, idealists don't care about what other people think, because they are right and everybody else is wrong.



Of course, now it's other people in the leadership of the Labour party.

@unenlightened agree?

The Tories have always stood for greed and selfishness, and most people most of the time are greedy and selfish. So they mostly win. The labour party is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Tories, that functions as a political equivalent of a tax loss.

a political equivalent of a tax loss — unenlightened

I don't know what you mean by this; mainly because I don't know what a tax loss is.

If you have a company that chops down trees and sells the wood, you are likely to make a lot of money, and the government will want lots of tax. so you add on another business that plants trees and doesn't sell anything, and that loses money and reduces the tax bill.

Similarly, if the government want to remain popular while ripping everyone off, they need a second party that people can vote for when they get fed up with being ripped off, that will rip them off even more. It's called 'democracy', and it's a very smart wheeze.

you sound disillusioned... what if the UK gets proportional representation?

what if the UK gets proportional representation? — The Opposite

I'll still be disillusioned.

Is it because Starmer is more centrist? Would you prefer Corbyn?

Is it because Starmer is more centrist? — The Opposite

Vacuous, rather than centrist. Obviously labour is divided, and Corbyn is an old school socialist. And the other half is Tory-light and campaigns for the tories whenever there is a socialist trend in the labour party. Michael Foot got the same treatment.

Minorities can rule because they prevent solidarity amongst the poor. They infiltrate and undermine, they sow dissent, they foster racism, and factional disputes. This is how the i% controls the 99%. Don't over-personalise it.

well, that's quite the grim problem you've painted. Is there a solution or only a problem?

Is a solution to live simply, to not get involved, and to abstain from voting?

I wouldn't say that at all. Well, live simply by all means, but vote -always vote unless the vote is rigged. Vote for the decent candidate, or the least sleazy one. vote for the most honest, the least proud and boastful Change your vote if the smile turns out to be fake. Prioritise the qualities of the candidate over the policies of the party.

what do you think about the whole... situation now? At this point it feels like the tories (and the spineless morons who vote for them) are leading the UK down a path to authoritarian rule.

Prioritise the qualities of the candidate over the policies of the party. — unenlightened

No thanks! The UK does not want to fall further into US popularism. The greatest benefit of the system in the UK is that people care about the policies and expect parties to present their plans in plain language. One of the main failings of the US system is the complete lack of policies and/or any cohesive plan.

I have always found it shocking that in the US ‘candidates’ can just use empty rhetoric without even the slightest attempt to show any plans or implementation of said plans.

I have always found it shocking that in the US ‘candidates’ can just use empty rhetoric without even the slightest attempt to show any plans or implementation of said plans. — I like sushi

You think UK politicians are short on empty rhetoric? Like 'get brexit done.'? Our prime minister's declared policy is to have his cake and eat it. Don't vote for lies and bullshit. Don't vote for dishonest greedy politicians, and if you do it once by mistake, change your vote next time.

In the UK governments set out a manifesto stating not merely what they'll do but how they'll do it. Some parties do better presentations than others from election to election.

My point was that in the US the whole system is run on sensationalist stories in the media circles and based on the characters of an individual rather than an actual plan.

I think willfully siding with a system that looks towards popularism rather than policies (which is at its heart what you are suggesting) is a wrong turn.

That is all. You don't have to agree.

I've always wanted to ask this to Boris Johnson, PM incumbent, UK. Isn't Boris a Russian name?

I think willfully siding with a system that looks towards popularism rather than policies (which is at its heart what you are suggesting) is a wrong turn. — I like sushi

I'm not, but let's drop it.

So, it's looking awfully like Waterloo for Boris, ain't it? From here in the Antipodes, he really does seem an empty suit, and one who's time is just about up.

It's amusing how much air-time the BBC has devoted to shaming Boris's breaking of Covid rules, given that five years ago they barely raised an eyebrow over the BMJ's study that linked 120 thousand deaths to needless Tory austerity and benefits custs that even provoked UN condemnation - policies that the BBC were happy to promote in the name of journalistic neutrality, the same BBC that has previously devoted thousands of hours to climate skepticism and the benefits of Brexit.