I am not suggesting that rationality and science are totalitarian at all. The point which I am making is that in understanding the nature of beliefs it is important to understand that human beings form value systems which are underlying these. Rationality is extremely important but would not work if other aspects of consciousness are not taken into account.

This is captured in Iain Gilchrist's book, 'The Master and the Emissary' in which he suggests that the right and left brain aspects of consciousness, need to be understood, as in the various functions of rationality, feeling, intuition and imagination. He traces this in philosophical developments in culture, including romanticism and the enlightenment, and the way in which science emerged. He suggests that it is important that rationality is not lost, but that a balance or integrated picture of the human being is developed.

On the basis of this, it would follow that to try to encourage systems of beliefs which follow logic and rationality alone are probably not compatible with human nature and, therefore it probably would not work to strive towards systems of ideas which only meet the requirements of logic. In other words, people are not simply cerebral and that is probably why apart from rationality, emotional intelligence and empathy are important on a personal basis for the development of personal and cultural perspectives.

Rationality is extremely important but would not work if other aspects of consciousness are not taken into account. — Jack Cummins

"Rationality ... would not work" for what exactly?

:lol:

Self-serving bias: people "demonize" those they disagree with and "worship" those they agree with especially when the social or political stakes are high enough. — 180 Proof

:up: Thanks.

I know people who are racist or sexist and they are able to justify their ideas — Jack Cummins

That's what worries me. We need to tread carefully because logic and morality are different subjects, neither is obligated to the other.

I do challenge racism and sexism, but it is extremely difficult because such ideas and values are deep seated beyond the surface of rational logic. — Jack Cummins

What's the relationship between instinct, intuition and logic?

I find that I agree with most of what you say. — Jack Cummins

I'm pleased to hear it. I try to avoid making unreasonable claims.

The area where it gets more complicated is with issues such as belief in God and life after death. — Jack Cummins

I suppose I expect the same general principles of judgment to apply in these matters as in others. What is more complicated in these cases, by your account?

It may seem strange to bring those areas in, but I was brought up with such beliefs and, having read a lot of philosophy and related fields, I have spent a lot of time dwelling on such matters, often going round in circles. — Jack Cummins

I don't think it's strange at all. Traditional religion was part of my upbringing. I recognize the value of spiritual experience, spiritual practice, spiritual community. I think there's room for a sort of agnostic theology that doesn't run afoul of healthy skepticism.

For many, hope and wishful thinking may come into play in holding onto such ideas. Also, when people think about their own future, uncertainty as to what may happen, hope may play an important role too. — Jack Cummins

One may provide inspiration, consolation, and guidance without promoting habits of unreasonable judgment and disregard for the value of truth. Moreover, it's one thing to take up philosophical conversations about these matters with someone who is eager to do so; and another to force such conversations on a person who would rather not engage in them, who gives no special reason to press the issue.

Belief is the property neccessary for the resolution of certainty, without which one would be too fearful to move.

I applied for an US citizenship to live and work in there on 2001, end of August. The 911 erupted in less than 2 weeks of my application. Due to the tragic event, my application process by the US immigration dept. had been delayed and delayed, and it got through on 2009. By this time I was busy working in Europe and also Korea, and well settled. So my emigration plan to USA was just out of question at the time.

I left the citizenship process, which involved going for interviews and filling some forms via the lawyers to expire as I was no longer interested in working and living in USA.

If there were no 911, then I would have been living in somewhere in USA (very likely in the state of Florida where my relatives reside), as your fellow citizen. :)

A typical case of world events affect individual's life and fate.

:mask: :up:

USA to me now is a possible world, i.e. a world of my imagination, beliefs and possibilities. It is no longer a world of reality. :D

USA to me now is a possible world, i.e. a world of my imagination, beliefs and possibilities. It is no longer a world of reality. — Corvus

Truer words may have never been spoken by a either citizen or non-citizen.

It is no longer a world of reality. :D — Corvus

If it ever really was. People have long opined that the U.S. is an idea, an aspiration, a hope, a dream. Even those who fought (and some died) for it, were fighting and dying for the idea. When it came to the real stuff, that was the land, family, friends, loved ones, community and the same things people around the world have.

It's just that some folks have a different idea of what the U.S. is or should be. It's just that if they are conservative or Republican, they are wrong.

Belief is what biology tells us it is, when it is once removed, as in talking anothers word for it, it is somewhat more tentative. If someone tells you a damaged bridge is safe and from our own observation it is anything but, your going to go with what your own consciousness tells you. Books are a secondary sources of knowledge which we give temporary crediablity to, because someone else's biology has told them that whatever, is true or false. Faith and trust are two different things to me, I know lots of people when faced with that which counterdicts their faith [ belief without evidence] their beliefs remain the same, its a bit like confusing fear with respect. Another point, secondary knowledge can often be proved by an abundance circumstantial evidence, alineing itself with ones previous knowledge of the matter.

In my teens I had been a pupil in the American High School in Jakarta Indonesia, when my father used to work in Indonesia.  It was a really good time and experience for me at the time.  Although my English capability was almost zero the first year when I got in there, then I was able to catch up pretty quickly, and do well.  I think that school is still existent in Jakarta.  It used to be called Joint Embassy School of Jakarta, or just JES.  Now maybe the name seems to have been changed to something else.

I recall my English class studying for Dickens and Shakespeare on my 9th grade classes, and the teacher Mrs Murphy. I understood almost nothing what was going on in the class.
And the Physics teacher (forgot his name), and a few Math teachers who were absolute great, and a Dutch teacher who taught us Special English to non English mother tongue pupils such as Japanese, Taiwanese, Korean and Polish pupils.  

I think the kindness and brilliance of teachings of those American teachers made me to love America and everything about the country at the time.

And the PE class was always about playing baseball, or softball, and sometimes soccer games.
Many pupils there were from different countries, but the majority of pupils were from USA mainland whose parents were working in the oil companies or for the government, and the education system and majority of teachers were the Americans from the USA schools. 

After the USA pupils, the next majority pupils in the school were the Australians because Australia is very near from Indonesia, and they seem to had been a lot of business between the two countries, and many of them were living in Jakarta.

Since that time, I was really fond of American culture, people and the education system, and really everything.  I used to have some really good American friends at the time.

I used to believe and imagine the USA would be a great place to work and live.  And many of my relatives immigrated to the USA too. I really believed that I would be living there too, but with the unexpected world events and recent pandemic times, and the media report, my belief in the USA has changed a lot, to a more negative, remote and just possible world.

I don't know much about the USA politics, so I cannot comment on it. But I do hope that things will improve and get better for the USA and the whole world in the future.

There is no such thing as objective thinking.

But I do hope that things will improve and get better for the USA and the whole world in the future. — Corvus

Me too! My only real hope is the younger generations from all over the world.

:up: :100: